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Harshness in tweeters: the price of transparency?

Hi,

I can't help notice a correlation between ultimate tweeter transparency and having to put up with harshness at loud volume levels. It can be very transparent and smooth to an appreciable volume, bit exceed that and it will go harsh if you apply the materials necessary for max transparency in those drivers.

I owned titanium dome tweeters in Avalon Eclipse speakers that ultimately caused me a case of a decade-long bout with tinnitus from the titanium dome tweeters, even when using a smooth Music Reference RM-9 tube amp.

I then owned a pair of horns with lightweight metal compression driver diaphragms. Again, unbearable harshness at loud levels where the metal "breaks up".

I now own a pair of beryllium dome tweeeters in speakers that again are volume limited before that metallic glare and harshness comes in. When I had silk domes none of that happened to me, but the details and transparency are markedly down for those drivers at all volumes.

The most transparent drivers I heard were the best tweeter horns but at the cost of harshness. They exceeded electrostatics for dynamics and transparency and detail, but at that cost. Electrostatics seem to me to be the best compromise in midrange on up detail and smoothness but with a real decline in dynamics.

Maybe diamond is the answer with its extreme rigidity and hardness. But I'm not rich enough for that yet, and probably never will be.

What's the scoop on the best tweeters out there for all of what I'm asking for here, but at a reasonable price? One possibility that intrigues me is the ceramic tweeter, but again, I don't know and those are not cheap either.

I want to play horns and cymbals loud and clear, without that bite in my ear. Soft domes aren't enough for me, at least not the ones I've heard after hearing horns and beryllium.
ktstrain
gregm
3,021 posts
 
Alternatively, all you're hearing is a tweeter that's harsh to begin with OR tuned too hot.
When you listen at low volume your ears' natural insensitivity to high frequencies "softens" the sound. At higher amplitude, the harshness is evident and the ears bleed, so to speak.

Diamonds are like nay other tweet -- with the added advantage of having their upper resonance very high up (~100kHz) hence not affecting the audible range.
jburidan
672 posts
 
No, harshness is due to a flaw in the system. The natural sound of musical instruments is musical, not harsh.
onhwy61's avatar
onhwy61
4,163 posts
 
In decibels, what volume level are you trying to achieve? The titanium or any other tweeter material didn't cause your tinnitus, it was exposure to very loud sound.
ryder
946 posts
 
Can't help with the best tweeters out there but I have heard the Marten Dukes which have ceramic tweeters. The highs are definitely more transparent and detailed than soft dome tweeters but we were listening at moderate volume levels so I'm not sure if the ceramic tweeter would exhibit harshness at high volumes.

Maybe your tinnitus was caused by constant exposure to loud music rather than the titanium dome tweeters since I noticed you like to listen to your music at loud volumes from what you had written above. I used to listen at high volume levels, probably in the region of 110db(normally it won't last for more than 2 hours) and have been experiencing a slight ringing in my right ear for almost 7 years. According to the ear specialist, I am not suffering from tinnitus and it's just that my ears are slightly sensitive to loud sound. I was advised against listening to music at high volume levels to avoid this "ringing" and was told that there was no treatment to this phenomenon. Since then, I have not experienced any problems with my ears when listening to music at moderate levels, and I realized I have been abusing my ears throughout these years listening at insane levels.

The moral of the story is to practice a safe listening habit with whatever tweeter you ended up with. I also agree with Tvad in that the harshness can sometimes be caused by the recording or the system itself although some really high-end systems can be free from glare and harshness in the upper registers when the speakers are played at high volume levels. Sorry, the topic of discussion has swerved off-course.
johnk's avatar
johnk
1,490 posts
 
I know of no cheap tweeters that dont exibit the problems you list. But I do know of one that doesnt have any of these problems and its a fostex t500amk2. Crossovers can also be a source of harshness in trebile. I have to use very hi-quality parts and tweeters if I want no grain and harshness free trebile with lots of air and detail.
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