Harshness in tweeters: the price of transparency?


Hi,

I can't help notice a correlation between ultimate tweeter transparency and having to put up with harshness at loud volume levels. It can be very transparent and smooth to an appreciable volume, bit exceed that and it will go harsh if you apply the materials necessary for max transparency in those drivers.

I owned titanium dome tweeters in Avalon Eclipse speakers that ultimately caused me a case of a decade-long bout with tinnitus from the titanium dome tweeters, even when using a smooth Music Reference RM-9 tube amp.

I then owned a pair of horns with lightweight metal compression driver diaphragms. Again, unbearable harshness at loud levels where the metal "breaks up".

I now own a pair of beryllium dome tweeeters in speakers that again are volume limited before that metallic glare and harshness comes in. When I had silk domes none of that happened to me, but the details and transparency are markedly down for those drivers at all volumes.

The most transparent drivers I heard were the best tweeter horns but at the cost of harshness. They exceeded electrostatics for dynamics and transparency and detail, but at that cost. Electrostatics seem to me to be the best compromise in midrange on up detail and smoothness but with a real decline in dynamics.

Maybe diamond is the answer with its extreme rigidity and hardness. But I'm not rich enough for that yet, and probably never will be.

What's the scoop on the best tweeters out there for all of what I'm asking for here, but at a reasonable price? One possibility that intrigues me is the ceramic tweeter, but again, I don't know and those are not cheap either.

I want to play horns and cymbals loud and clear, without that bite in my ear. Soft domes aren't enough for me, at least not the ones I've heard after hearing horns and beryllium.
ktstrain
Kurt-

If you've got the space, check out a line source speaker.
See:

http://av123.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=36&Itemid=37
Kurt, have you ever tried a pro audio speaker, especially an active design? I think Shadorne is on the right track with his reasoning and recommendation.

Have you ever lived with a Seas Revelator or Dynaudio Esotar2 tweeter? If so, what did you think of them?
Try a professional studio speaker, e.g., Tannoy 215 DMT II, for transparency without harshness. Way better than speakers that cost 2-, 3-, 4-, or 5-times as much.
Up above, the Revelator is a ScanSpeak product. The good Seas tweeter is the Excel. I think.
I tend to think you have to think about the speaker as a whole not just the tweeter.

Of the many speakers I have, I consider Dunlavy's the most transparent all around. I would say that there are speakers like certain martin logans which are more transparent in the top end, but not in the mids where, a lot of the music is. Depending on the crossover, a good deal of cymbal sound is in your midrange not just in the high end.

My mastering engineer that i trust the most once called duntechs and dunlavy's "as flat as you can get while still being listenable". Which means, with microphones speakers and everything else, if you had a completely flat freq response, you might not find it that pleasing.

There is a lot of stuff to read up on about why specs are usually nonsense and how measuring things is a really good thing but not everything.

Some speakers really pick stuff apart. that can be really addicting, because when you go to another kind of speaker you miss the detail. However, if you like a lot of kinds of music, a very detailed speaker for some people, makes, say, led zep, unlistenable.

I go all directions. I have dunlavys for referencing stuff i really need to pick apart, B&W's for stuff in the middle and quads for that lush midrange thing like string quartets. All my speakers sound good to me, but they have different strengths.

While the natural sound of musical instruments may not be harsh (though standing next to some violinists or trumpet players might convince you otherwise) the sound of recordings is very different from life. Many recordings are hyped and all are voiced around the speakers they were being monitored and mixed on. There's no standard. That's just life.

I wish it were easiler to say "yes you must have this and sacrifice this" but there are so many aspects to the synchonicity of the audio chain it becomes, like everything discussed here, a matter of personal preference.