HEGEL - Is it really made in Norway ?

Even though this is a three year old thread, I just stumbled on it. As an H300 owner, I am surprised to learn Hegel is Chinese-made.  No indication on the box, and the amp says “Hegel, Oslo Norway”. As others have stated, this is at the least misrepresentation. It is up to the purchaser to decide whether country of origin is improtant or not. They are entitled to transparency in marketing. Hegel has been disingenuous in its marketing which is a real shame. 

Now that I know the amp is Chinese-made, does it sound different? Of course not. Still sounds the same.  But a lot of us like to support our domestic manufacturing economies (which have struggled in the past decade or more because of increased Chinese dominance) when we make major purchases. Even if I am not Scandinavian (I am Canadian), I prefer to support progressive societies whenever I can. Sure, there are benefits to supporting homegrown engineers, but it is the folks on the factory floor who really need a break. Are Norwegians aware of the bait and switch when they purchase Hegel products? As echoed by others, disappointing. 

One of my former work buddies, who is thinking of buying a stereo receiver in the $500-800 price range to drive his $500 pair of Elac stand mounts was horrified to see that all the brands he was considering (Marantz, NAD, Cambridge, Denon, etc.) were not made in the U.S.  I let him know that, in that price range, I didn't know of any brand assembled in the U.S., but that McIntosh may still have a MAC6700 receiver available for $6500!

I don’t think you can categorize all Chinese made audio equipment into one basket full of rotten apples. I own the PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium preamp which is also made in China and with full disclosure about it from P-L. It is a superb product in all facets of sound and build quality and I would recommend it highly to anyone looking to add a great value to an already overpriced audio market as of late.
As always,it’s good to do your research and apply it to any purchase decision whether it be Chinese made or whom-ever made. I certainly do not agree with Hegel’s policy of hiding the fact that it manufactures in China,but to there defense,they do seem to have a decent track record.

I am so disappointed, but glad, I happened to stumbe across this thread. I was all set and excited to plunk down $6000 dolllars on a Hegel H360 integrated amp this week.

Unfortunately my and many others experience with Chinese-made products on the whole is they are made with poor, if not any, quality control in their manufacturing plants. The Chinese products of many varieties I’ve owned have almost all ended up needing repairs or in in the dumpster in an inordinately short period of time due to this endemic issue.

For just a random non-audio example, how many more times am I going to have to replace the Chinese made carburetor on my ostensibly German manufactured Stihl weed-eater? The list off defective products acquired went on and on before I realized I needed to stop throwing away money on Chinese junk carrying formerly reputable brand names. I can’t afford to turn a blind eye to this ongoing issue and to potentially throw away $6000. I’ve been burned too many times before to do that. Maybe Hegel products are the exception to the rule, but I’m not going to chance it. 

I would have been terribly disturbed to have found out Hegels were Chinese manufactured after a purchase of this magnitude had been made. So thank you so much soniqmike for starting this thread.

And shame on Hegel for being deceptive. Their web site looks like an ad by the Norwegian tourist industry. I’m disgusted. And I'm not a big fan either of companies poorly compensating workers in China to keep prices down just because they can. That's another reason not to buy Chinese. I've got no problem with purchasing Japanese Toyotas and I have a Korean Kioti tractor, but China is a no-go until they clean up their act.

Mike

I have a Chinese integrated tube amp which is designed and built by Cayin.  I think it retails for a little over $3500.  In any case, I have had it for 6-7 years. I have yet to see any European, American, or Japanese built gear at anywhere near this price point that has the same build quality.  It is 95% point-to-point wired (the only circuit board is for the remote control).  The solder joints look like silver jewels and the layout is superb.  The case, aluminum work, and potted transformers are just lovely to look at. I am not sure any non-Chinese manufacturer can afford to build like this.  I have seen point-to-point construction in boutique hand made gear.  But those pieces were not even close to the build quality of this Cayin.  The signal-to-noise is outstanding.  It has great features (like the remote whose volume control by itself is cost-prohibitive for most manufacturers, and the triode/pentode switch which allows for sound-shaping depending on the type of music you are listening to.)   It makes the some of the older ARC and Mac gear look cheap by comparison.

I know several people who design and build amps in the USA.  They have all commented that they could not afford to build at the same quality level as this Cayin.

And talk about bullet-proof design - this amp has survived two KT88 meltdowns and all I had to do was replace the tube - and a fuse, in one case.  By contrast, I have a British amp (whose sound I love) that seriously wiped out some power supply resistors when an EL34 failed.  The sound of resistor ceramic exploding and the concomitant stench was impressive.  It was not insignificant work to repair it.

Not all Cayin stuff is great quality though.  I have two Cayin SACD players that are problematic even though the sound is superb.  The mechanical noise from the transport is sometimes more than noticeable on one of them.  The other player shorted out somewhere so that the only sound it produces is digital noise.  

All of this is to say that you should not harbor anti-Chinese bigotry regarding China's high-end audio manufacturing capability.  The build quality of Hegel and Ayon is probably better than it would have been if it were built in Europe.   By manufacturing in China, they can spec a much better build quality and keep cost down so that you, the purchaser, get the best product possible.

Further, do not think that Chinese engineers can't do great designs.  Ayon and Hegel  confer legitimacy on their products because the designs is done by Europeans.  But good design engineering knows no borders.    

Is he still your dealer?

I was told by my dealer that Hegel was made in Norway.He knows that I insist on not buying anything made in China(they all run hot too...) unless it's very reasonable and the only choice.So I bought a new Hegel H80 integrated and after some research discovered they are actually MIC. An exact clone of that model(by another company) is available for $1000 less.Probably from the same factory I would surmise....
So,I skipped the bs and bought my first McIntosh component.Of the myriad audio components I've cherished over 45 years about half of the MIC products crashed at some point.None of the USA,English or Canadian made stuff ever failed.Only one product made in Japan ever quit-an early 1980s Technics receiver.One thing i will admit is that the MIC products seem to be improving but some of the prices are getting close to well know made in USA brands.

@twoleftears I already ordered the kinki, I was simply researching other amps.

Me too. Trust me when I say that it's the Kinki that will ultimately help you redefine what it is you're capable of hearing.

All the best,
Nonoise

I thought you were getting Kinki integrated.  So what Hegel?  DAC? Or?  There are lots of manufacturers with similar or better reps, starting with Ayre and Sim Moon.

So I just discovered this last night. Kind of shocking. I have looked into their website quite extensively already and I honestly assumed that they manufacture them in Norway (for some reason I thought I read they had a manufacturing facility in Oslo...) I also thought this because they are charging made in EU prices for their gear. They even sell direct and ask full price if you buy direct!!!

Kind of sad. Part of me wants to consider getting a Hegel anyway. They seem like great products. But I also feel like they almost pulled one over me. I dunno.

I recently read a review of a Hegel product and it was stated that they design things in Norway and manufacture it in China…first statement of that I've seen, and if they're not clearly stating on the gear where it's manufactured they can get in BIG trouble, at least in the US.

OK, I guess I'm letting you know how "senior" I am...but, when my wife and I were dating we took a trip to Scandinavia, stopping in Oslo and enjoying the kindness of our hosts, people from the Tandberg factory.  I owned a Tandberg receiver and cassette deck and was interested to see where they were born.  This was the late 1970's and the folks from Tandberg let us know that they thought the days of being competitive in the world audio market, while assembling their products in Norway were numbered.
I'm thinking that NAD revolutionized the business model by designing the equipment in North America, but outsourcing the assembly to Taiwan and now China.  That business model is now commonplace with many, if not most American companies.

Much Thanks! trelja
has anyone else auditioned the Mohican cd player?
Happy Listening!

Just because its made in China , does not mean its poorly made . Volvo and  a Caddy transmissions are  made in China! My girl friend is made in China she works fine and is reliable .

This is quite an interesting thread, if a little over-hashed. Nonetheless, I'd like to add my 2 cents...
To preface my thoughts, I will give two examples of some recent large purchases that I've made:
I purchased a Huawei Mate 10 Pro (£600) a few months ago. (My previous phones were a Sony Z2 and a couple HTCs). I have zero problem buying a high-end phone, made in China, by a Chinese brand. After all, the Chinese make most smartphones these days. 
Around the end of 2017, I designed and bought a new dining table and bench (£2,500), made by a local craftsman in Nottingham where I live, from 300-year-old oak that came from the ceiling beam of an old post office nearby that was being extended. In this case, I am buying as sustainably as possible.

I happen to agree with most of what Sabai has to say. It's not a problem that it's made in China. The problem is that Hegel MARKET their products like they are Norwegian, through-and-through, as if that is reason for it to cost a lot. This seems similar to Apple, who command a premium because they are "the best" in terms of design, brand image, functionality etc. While Apple make their money off this premium image, they do not pretend to be made somewhere they're not, or that the product is something that it's not. On the other hand, Hegel is selling this Norwegian "factor" as something to differentiate it from the market, and to be able to demand a premium. Certainly, their products sound great, but so do other similar products that are manufactured in China but cost less.
On this basis, it does seem somewhat misleading that Hegel make no mention of being manufactured in China, because many customers may feel that they are paying extra for a "local" product, perhaps something with provenance (e.g. this is why Champagne demands a premium). They may want to support the local/regional economy.

Coming back to my purchase examples that I mentioned: I am happy to buy something expensive, no matter where it is made, evidenced by my recent purchases. But I also think companies should be upfront about this. Sony phones may mostly (or completely, I don't know) be made in China, but they don't use "Japan" as a selling point. Similarly, Huawei is obviously Chinese, and they don't try to hide it - they just show how good they are by the quality of their product, and let this quality speak for itself.
In the case of my table, I bought local because I want to support local business, local jobs, and the ability of local people to retain their craft skills, thereby helping the UK and local area to remain competitive in some areas. Also, because they are local, I am able to guarantee the source of the wood, which is important because sustainability is high on my list of priorities. Furthermore, I was able to easily stay in touch during the design and construction process. Lastly, there is provenance, knowing that not only was the table made locally, but the tree was also likely to have grown locally 300ish years ago - it has a story. So, sure, I could have paid £1,000 or so for a similar type of product from somewhere like Oak Furniture Land, but it would not have had any of the aforementioned advantages/benefits. And for that, I was happy to pay £2,500 instead for a bespoke, one-of-a-kind, locally made, sustainable product.

HiFi is expensive. Let's face it, the tech you get for £2,000 in HiFi is generally considerably more basic than what the latest £2,000 television packs in. Thus, if a company like Hegel uses provenance to demand a premium on a product that costs £2,000, I expect that provenance to be there, no matter what the reason I care about it is (e.g. want to buy local, I'm a snob, whatever). In contrast, other similarly expensive companies that provide a similar level of quality audio, such as Chord Electronics, make less of a big deal about provenance, yet they are actually manufactured in the UK. 

For the above reason, combined with the evidence from Sabai and a couple others regarding terrible customer service, points toward Hegel being the type of company that I would not want to give my custom to, and for that reason, I will no longer consider their products in my planned upcoming HiFi purchase...

@jafant your query intrigued me into checking out the Mohican...

Reading the Stereophile review and looking around online raised several questions on my end:
1. Herb Reichert states the player is made in Norway. While I cannot say that’s untrue, given the reality of Opera Audio (Consonance) serving as their OEM and often simply rebadging their own products, I do feel puzzled
2. HR and the specifications also states the use of Sanyo CD mechanism. Internal photos look pretty clear it’s the Sony unit Consonance uses in most of their CD players. As that’s proved a definitive Achilles heel for more than a decade, I wonder about the reliability of this supposedly last CD player one will have to buy

Beyond that, the $5000 price tag floored me. I could certainly be wrong, but from the internals this feels like the Redbook CD players their Chinese manufacturer cranked out since the early 2000s in the $1K - $2K range

Any of you guys demo the Hegel Mohican  cd player?
Happy Listening!

I'm sure Electrocompaniet might question that last note, although maybe they use the Chinese too, but somehow I doubt it.

Personally I would rather have the Chinese build my audio gear vs the folks in Norway. The Chinese have a lot more experience in electronics. I also like the Hegel products from my experience listening to them at shows. Not sure how reliable they are since I never owned one.

I think Durkheim had it right for the most part.

Here in Europe Hegel products get positive reviews.  Their equipment style and looks are in essence a 'Scandinavian' style of smart solid no nonsense minimilistic looks.  Nearly all reviews of their equipment have a common denominator in that how well its components are built and how a lot of thought has gone into their design.  A lot of the reviews all end stating their gear reaches heights above their budget.  However when someone drags out the fact that the gear is actually built in China that does place a downer on their label/perception. 

donjr,

The problem is not that Hegel is made in China. The problem is that they attempt to deceive customers by putting Norway on the back of their products, There is more deception than this going on at Hegel, IMO.

I agree with @schubert. Just because it's made in China doesn't mean it's bad. They are fully capable of making the finest products. They will make whatever you want. 

Beklager ... laget i Kina.

Jeg synes Hegel er lagte i Norge, men jeg er ikke sikker....

Dang Wolf, me too. Then a quarter Irish, the other quarter a mix of the other Western European countries. About as white as you can be, I reckon. But my favorite male singers are almost all black: Howlin' (heh) Wolf, Big Joe Turner, Ray Charles, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, etc.

I'm half Norwegian and even I wasn't made in Norway.

I own 2 off that list.  I am thinking o f getting a Chinese/Silicone Valley DAC and disc player tho...

dl, assume all you want, none of that other junk costs big money , unless you’re
dumb enough to buy an 80" inch 4K boob-tube  that is .

Don’t buy US, buy Twin Cities .

Atma-Sphere                + World famous Needle Doctor . .
Van Alstine
Bel Canto
Magnepan
ARC
Anti-cables
Schitt
All firms are "Minnesota Nice " ! So nice rumor has it Canada might ask us to join .

jetter,

You're welcome. I feel the same way you do. Without good customer service where do we stand in high end audio? There are a lot of top companies who give exemplary service, and I have mentioned a few that I particularly like. Once you have done some due diligence it is easy to avoid companies that have a poor reputation.

schubert,

Yes, this is simply misleading.

I assume that none of you that are so preoccupied about the country of manufacture have equipment, TVs, computers, or cell phones made in China...

Dave

OBVIOUSLY , if they just stick NORWAY on back they ARE trying to sucker you . 

sabai,
Thank you for explaining, I understand why your upset.  It is a shame that the company refused to do the right thing, to me the difference between good an bad customer service is a big deal.  I wish all companies operated under the Odyssey and Bryston models.      

jetter,

I was calmly relating the details of a defective Hegel amplifier to a top Hegel executive over the phone -- asking that they look into the matter for me. He became explosively angry yelling "that’s bulls**t" and then hung up on me. That’s what I call not only highly unprofessional but also abusive.

Hegel executives continued to stonewall me and offered not an ounce of satisfaction. After being told that I had to dismantle my entire system I was finally given two choices -- sell the Hegel amplifier on the used market or sell it back to the dealer at a multi-thousand $$ loss. I chose the latter.

I have never seen anything like this in all the years I have been dealing with high end audio companies. I remember another audiophile reporting that he had a literally smoking Hegel product and was also stonewalled by the company. Has anyone out there ever seen an audio company that refused to back their own products?

sabai, you probably mentioned it earlier, but can you remind us what they did that makes you feel "abused".

rbstehno,

Full disclosure. I have no connection whatsoever with any audio company except as a customer. The only points I have been trying to make are that Hegel has unnecessarily mislead their customers and prospective customers -- and that being abusive with customers is a strange way of doing business when presented with the problem of defective products.

This thread makes no sense but it seems like Sabai has it out for Hegel. For all I know, Sabai could work for a competitor and Hegel is kicking there ass in SQ. I have owned multiple Hegel products, still do, and they sound excellent. There are so many great companies that their products are designed in 1 country and built in China, has anybody heard of Apple? IMO it is good business to do this. When you buy an American car, it can have 70% of its parts made overseas. Does Chrysler say made in America when you know the majority of their parts are made elsewhere. Actually, years ago, Mazda had more of its car parts in certain cars made in America than chevy and ford.
i personally don't think this is a bad practice unless a company lies that states "made in XXXXX" but in reality it's made somewhere els, which Hegel hasn't done.

Having been insulted (unprovoked) by top people at Hegel Headquarters, after paying full price for their product, I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that there is something very strange going on at Hegel. I think the underlying problem with is one that we also see elsewhere from time to time. Hegel simply cannot bring themselves to say ... we made a mistake here ... sorry ... this needs to be corrected. If they were able to do this they would immediately gain respect and credibility. Instead, they act reflexively, trying to save face.

We can also see this happening with the labeling of their products. There is something strange in their corporate culture that impels them to do the opposite of what one would reasonably expect of a mature company. It is as if, after shooting themselves in the left foot they are ready to reload and repeat the exercise using the right foot. They fail to examine the way they present themselves in certain problematic instances -- being incapable of rectifying problems that are actually quite simple to solve. Their behavior is all the more odd because those I have spoken to at Hegel seemed to be otherwise quite intelligent people. How can we explain this kind of corporate behavior?

randy-11,

Robots are the wave of the future and China is a world leader. The use of robots may actually keep the cost of labor down, which is why they are proliferating.

schubert,

I agree. Greed is omnipresent.

Greed will rule no matter where something is made or sold .

Agreed, but low labor costs won't last long and have already changed quite a bit.  Most labor will be done by robots in a few years anyway.

Whether China will set up something like JIS would be the biggest near-term effect on quality.

Another thing about China - if you suddenly need 10,000 engineers for a project... they can be on site in a week.  Even India can't match that (yet).

randy-11,

This is clearly a pattern -- from shoddy to superior. Of course, it can take decades to make the transition. But I think we should watch carefully the emerging trends in Asia. The movement eastwards portends a lot of changes in the future. I think this could have a positive impact on the high end audio industry. Because, with lower production costs in China and its satellites, there is a lot of wiggle room for discounting high end products.

Most valuable brand in the world is Made In Germany followed closely by
Made in Japan .
Made in USA  doesn't mean a lot outside USA .

"when made in Japan meant cheaply made" - Japan solved that by instituting rigorous controls and testing.  For cameras at least, there were J.I.S. stickers on them.  Today, japan rules the camera industry (tho Leica and Zeiss are still there and making high end lenses for Japanese cameras... and some items are made in China or Thailand for japanese manf.s)

BTW, the US used to be a high volume manf. of cheap, shoddy goods - in the mid to late 1800s, for both furniture and cloth or clothing.

nycjlee,

Regarding the China issue, it is true that China still makes some shoddy products. But, as has been noted, this is changing. And they are making great advances in developing and producing many high tech products in emerging industries. This is underreported, especially in the area of robotics. China also manufactures some very high quality audio products. While some audio companies may not want their products associated with "Made in China" the fact is that many do have their products manufactured in China and are not afraid to say so on their products. IMO, it is worse to mislead customers than to admit "Made in China". The stigma attached to all products that are manufactured in China no longer applies, although some US companies would understandably like to see it stick for a while longer, I imagine.

You stated, "I think the issue is about corporate honestly ... I’m however concerned about how you were treated by Hegel’s corporate [sic]. That is just not acceptable." This is exactly the point I am making. Aside from the China issue, this is essentially an issue concerning corporate culture, IMO. There are a couple of Norwegian companies -- Hegel included -- that are known in the business to have a poor corporate culture. This came to me during a conversation about Hegel and Scandinavian audio companies in general, via the CEO of one of the largest audio companies in Singapore, with which I have a good relationship. Certain things are known on the "inside" that are kept from wider public view.

Personally, no matter how good the sound, I prefer to deal with competing companies that produce great sounding products and that have a reputation for good corporate culture. This can make a big difference in many ways including customer service, problems that may arise, upgrading, etc. The examples in my earlier post -- Atma-Sphere, Audio Horizons, Raidho (Scandinavian), Shunyata, Synergistic Research and PS Audio -- are companies I have dealt with in the past that have the highest integrity and never have disappointed in any way. These are the kinds of audio companies I will always choose to do business with -- while always shying away from the "weak sisters". There is no need to choose a "weak sister" when there are so many "strong sisters" out there.

Generally, I agree with Sabai but honestly I think many audiophiles will go with the sound and not where the products are made. With that said, no high-end audio company wants to be associated with products made in China (many reasons....but they do want to max their profits with creating the best image and branding), where for years, products made in China have been known to have quality issues and simply, poorly manufactured. Thus, the no "Made in China" label due to the bad rep, but to your point that's changing. In regards to other choices, the main issue if you ask me is discovery of these great and new products, for example I only found about about Atma Sphere not too long ago, but many so called audiophiles don’t even bother to research/listen and will just go with what’s recommended in Stereophile or some other better known online reviewers. The truth is that Hegel makes great amps and they sound great. I think the issue is about corporate honestly. As people realize that China is no longer a country that just makes tinker toys, companies will become more honest about it. I’m however concerned about how you were treated by Hegel’s corporate. That is just not acceptable. For many reasons, I like products made in the US and I will stay with US made products. Both Rogue and Ayre make great products with terrific service. I own all Ayre products and are exceptional both in quality and service. If you’re in the market for an amp, I would wait for the new Ayre AX-8 coming this fall and give that a listen.