high power tube amps vs ss

"If we can't measure it can it exist? Sure!"

Sure. But some actual evidence always helps, especially in the often twilight zone of high end audio.

If you can't measure it, it does not prove it is not there, just that there is no evidence to substantiate it other than words and theories.

Plus once it is determined to exist the next question is how important is it really?

ANy issue can seem quite grand on its own. But put it into the big picture along with all the rest, and maybe it is not really the biggest nut to crack? All designers have their pet peeves that determine their approach. Designs are different as a result as are the results themselves. Which is best? Each woth their salt thinks their own most likely. How to determine who is right and who is wrong? Evidence certainly helps. Substantial evidence often takes a long time to accumulate to the point where determinations can be. But time usually tells in the end. We'll see....

Atmasphere, I've found that chart to be a useful tool to help me understand audio better. What I have heard over the years is consistent with what the chart tells me.

IS there some way you can reconcile the theory you support with the chart? For example, do the harmonic loudness artifacts you describe commonly fall into the frequency ranges depicted that ears are most sensitive to? That sound plausible to me. If what you say is at least consistent with the chart, that adds something to the case IMHO.

My understanding as documented on the source site is the human ear sensitivity data depicted in the chart is based on data collected "testing large sample groups" and is based on ISO standard 226 (2003) for human equal loudness contours, whatever the blue heck that is.

I have to tell you that this tube vs solid state discussion and other discussions are typically biased against solid state and towards tube. As I have mentioned previously in other posts, I have heard many excellent tube amps. But, I have also heard just as many excellent solid state amps. Good Design/engineering is just that. Take it home, plug it in and listen for your self. Some like the "tube" sound. I have listened for decades and I can tell you that what I usually hear is the specific design of the circuitry of the particular amp. I have heard tube amps that had terrible sound stage, dynamics, etc. Same with solid state amps. Some times it has to do with system integration or room dynamics or actual design of the tube amp. We can talk harmonic distortion till the cows come home. But, the real test is long term listening in your home on your system. If it works and you smile and you are "there", then that's it. Show me a tube amp that people say is really great and I'll show you a solid state amp that matches it or better it. It depends on the design/construction/circuitry, engineering of either. If I had the money right now, I would purchase two Audio Research REF 250 amps. I have heard them and they are incredible. Better than the best like priced solid state amps? Couldn't tell you since I haven't heard them. But, I'm not prejudiced. I know good design and engineering when I hear it or see it. What would be better is to have forums where solid state amp designers and tube amp designers sit and answer questions and discuss these issues. Then, you will have a more fair discussion and I guarantee that you will have better insite and information.

enjoy (no really, enjoy)

Minor1 said:

I know good design and engineering when I hear it or see it.

Not to be contrary, but unless I miss my guess, neither you nor anyone else has ever "heard" a "design". You may have heard a system based on a component whose designer made trade-offs and design decisions that ultimately yielded a sound that conformed to your aesthetic. Now when you say:

What would be better is to have forums where solid state amp designers and tube amp designers sit and answer questions and discuss these issues. Then, you will have a more fair discussion and I guarantee that you will have better insite [sic] and information.

I say, right on bro!!!

@ Swampwalker +1