Linn LP-12 still competitive with the very best?


Hi folks, I wonder if the Linn LP-12 is still competitive with the best offerings from Avid, VPI, TW Acoustics, Teres, Galibier and Transrotor. If that is the case, then it's cheaper to go for a LP-12. What are the weak points of the LP-12? Which tt is better: the Thorens TD124 or Linn LP-12?

Chris
dazzdax
Lrsky
Actually it was me that made the statement regarding linns policy.
My nearest audio dealer here in the UK is Billy Vee sound systems,Take a look at thier website and you will understand a little more about my comments.
Then take a look at Walrus systems who are a genuine analogue shop for turntable lovers,You will see no Linns here because Linn will not want to be there and they wouldn't want Linns anyway?
The vast majority of audio retailers in the uk are just like Billy Vee.
I do not hate the LP12,I used various incantations of it over a five year period and am fully aware of its strengths and its weaknesses.
But I do hate the marketing machine that has led many people down an expensive path that ultimately wasnt the path that was for them.
Uktel: I thank you for opening my eyes even more. I just left the Billy Vee site and was shocked that I did not even see a Rega TT nor a mention of the new WTA table. I hope all who have chastised me, will understand that I do not hate the Linn table. I just know like so many that there are now and then better tables compared to Linn. Heck I know that back in the mid 80s when I compared it to the Goldmund studio and even WTT.
Now that everyone's heated up,let's look at some more of the "Linn picture".
Back in 1983, I opened an audio store. I wanted to carry the 'best'.
I selected, from products of the era, what I thought to be among that 'best'.

One product that I wanted to carry and did, was Linn Sondek. They did have very stringent requirements to become a dealer. At the time, caught up in the moment, I agreed to their requirements, thinking, 'hey, it's their product, they have the right to have input as to how and where, and with what other products, they are marketed.'

Very soon, after spending a full two days with the 'installation' of their product into my store, I began to rethink my choice. It all began with the revelation having another pair of speakers in the listening room would affect the sound. OK that's reasonable, 'excite the woofer, and send energy back through the crossover' and into the room, I get it. So, I'll lug speakers back and forth all day long to have that single speaker demo room. Work, but I am no stranger to hard work. Then the other shoe dropped. "Wearing a digital watch in the listening room will also ruin the sound."
Hmmmmm. Hmmmmmm....(Me pondering that one)
My wife had to hide her laughter from them. Knowing what a fanatic I am, she was gracious and didn't say anything.
OK, well, maybe the 'digital watch thing' could have some merit...maybe, but how much could it really effect the totallity of sound?
(The sound you heard was more shoes dropping, not the digital watch 'ruining the sound'.)
Then the theology that, "If someone runs in from the outside in desparate need of using the restroom, or wants to buy a postage stamp, or needs a drink of water--sell them a turntable.
My principal speaker supplier, which I won't name, was friends with Linn's people, but even they expressed serious doubts about the Linn choice, knowing that thier business model was one of exclusion of all other products.
They feared the I, because I decided to also carry one other English product, would be seduced to 'the dark side' of Anglophilism.
Let's think about this--if they won't allow dealers to carry other turntables along with theirs, that's their choice. They can set their distribution pattern in whatever light they wish to. The dealers have the right to decline, I know I had that right.
Let's fast forward some 17 years, and see how Linn came back to haunt me.
While working as VP of Sales and Marketing for THIEL Audio, I was teaching my "Eleven Hard Earned Lessons" to our dealers sales people.
In one store, while 'role playing' I told the sales person I wanted to hear the CS6. Two hours later he, without any regard to my protests, was STILL trying to sell me a Linn Sondek.
What chance did THIEL have in that store, if all the sales people, apparently from some contrarian training, behaved the same way? Seriously, it was actually spooky, it was as if they were involved in some 'cult', for want of a better word.
This whole scenario is Linn's option, again they can market however they chose. Its up to customers to make comparisons and then decide.
Also, Linn is not alone in this 'exclusivity' bent. Many small audio companies are protective of 'instore' competiton. Most dealers would rather present 'choice sale' rather than a 'yes or no' do you like it sales event, but that's not always their option.
Wow, interesting stories about "big brother Linn".

How is it that I see high end shops these days carrying the Linn line as almost entry level high end products aside many other competing even more highly touted lines?

Also I recall the dealer I bought my Axis from back in the 80s also carried Rega, in fact I bought the Rega Planar 2 first and then went to the Linn because I didn't think the Rega was any better than the Dual I had before that or the Philips 312 I had before that.

That dealer must have been one valiant sole to dare resist the Linn police and sell another line.
Mapman: are you still using a Linn as your prime analog source,and if yes why?