Looking For 90% of the performane of the super expensive cables for much less money
I currently have a system which consists of Vandersteen 5A's, THor Audio TP-150 tubed monoblocks, Thor Line Stage and Thor phono stage, Marantz SACD player SA-114 and will take delivery of the VPI Prime Scout with a Sumiko EVOS 3 Cartridge. I am currently using LAT International Speaker Cables, Power Cords and Interconnects. (They are no longer in business). I am in immediate need of turntable cables and would like to update my new speaker cables and interconnects. Not willing to spend thousands on this upgrade. Seeking to capture as much of the "magic" that the super expensive cables deliver but at a more realistic price point. I understand that I have really good quality equipment, but at this stage of my life cannot allocate mega dollars towards cables. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
grannyring" The “science”of the earth’s age, earth’s formation and creation, Big Bang etc... all have major gaps that require “faith”
It is probably safe to assume that within this group quite a many of us understand the conflict that exists for you from peer-reviewed science based research, measurements, and mathmatics and the fairy-tales that exist in your Big Book of Truth.
Well gaps and speculations. There’s a whole lotta faith going on in what we term science today. No way around it as it is a natural outcome of our imperfect and incomplete human condition and wisdom. A clear thinker such as yourself must understand this to be the case in some instances?
grannyring, just to close the loop, there are no gaps in the science of the age of the Earth, the Earth’s formation or the Big Bang. We know exactly how big the Universe is and it’s rare of expansion. We also know there’s a big monster black hole snack dab in the center of our galaxy.
Ok @geoffkait we just could not possibly disagree more and let’s leave it at that. No way is this forum the place to try and sort this argument out. I should not have tried to offer a differing view on this off topic tangent. My bad. Back to affordable cables.
I would think that the way the entire universe and everything in it exist purely on physical laws...which easily can be seen to be made by a conceptual design proves science is truly grasping more out of vain deceit than actual facts. Can someone explain how the human mind can even exist? Science can’t...
grannyring Ok @geoffkait we just could not possibly disagree more and let’s leave it at that. No way is this forum the place to try and sort this argument out. I should not have tried to offer a differing view on this off topic tangent. My bad. Back to affordable cables.
You’re the one that started it. I just finished it, that’s all. This is just a case of Culture vs Agriculture.
I have to say I have got an accoustic barbeque interconnect that is very very good. I do not know how much better it gets for more. I would seriously consider that ic.
To clarify I did not start this and just read the posts before mine. My mistake was continuing it. You may have made the same mistake it seems. It depends on wether or not you think it was a mistake.
The dude that drives the getaway car is just as guilty as the shooter. Frankly I have no idea what you were even talking about. All I did was ask nicely what you were referring to. Give me a break.
What you asked for is fine and I never said it was not? I simply said I made a mistake of going down this tangent and let’s get back to cables. No more, no less. No break needed. Now I have no idea what you are talking about.
Back to the OP. You should do some searching on the Duelund stranded copper wire in cotton. The 16 gauge makes wonderful ICs and speaker cables. It costs $10 a meter at Parts Connextion. Many Aphiles here and folks like Jim Smith and Jeff Day have also found this wire to be a real gem.
No need to terminate for speaker cables as you can just use the bare wire.
You can use $9 Cardas RCA connectors from Sonic Craft for an outstanding pair of ICs. If you don’t have the DIY skills and also want your speaker cables terminated I can certainly help you with that.
The 12 gauge Duelund wire is also great for speaker cables if you need longer runs and use a higher powered SS amp.
its a perfectly appropriate question, but I just had to giggle a little ,
b/c audio cords have the highest profit margin of audio equipment. So the OP wants 90% of the performance at a much lower cost. I would actually suggest to consider making your own cables then. Get with someone at a DIY shop who sells this products,: wire, terminations, etc and ask them what they would buy and how to build the cable. They will want to help you b/c you are buying their accessories.
If you can solder and follow directions, you should be fine. that is the other myth of cables- like they are difficult to make. they are not ....
What Einstein actually said was, “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” Einstein also said, “It’s a miracle that the Universe is comprehendable.”
But it was PT Barnum who said, “People would be generally much better off if they believed in too much rather than too little.” And it was WC Fields who said, “Never smarten up a chump.”
Not to cross-pollinate from other threads, but let me assert with a degree of certainty, that any piece of wire, used as an interconnect will be improved by using High Fidelity Cables Magnetic Adapters.
I have heard the immediate improvement on the cheapest ICs sold by Monoprice. I have a friend that uses the adapters on his $5,000 interconnects.
Before jumping on any cable bandwagon, you might be well-pleased with the wires you own, with HFC Adapters
“The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books—-a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects.”
I'm kind of new to this uber cable stuff but i.e. if I'm putting up a new building in say upper mi. And do a dedicated circuit/breaker box properly grounded would this eliminate a lot of the issues? I thought I read on another thread that this would cure a lot of problems. Any comments appreciated!
You must not have seen my earlier post. What Einstein said was,
“It’s a miracle that the Universe is comprehendable.” Which obviously contradicts your Einstein quote.
He must have been high when he said what you say he said. Or else he was misquoted, Who the hell knows.
In any case the universe is well understood, even the Higgs boson and gravity waves were found recently - OK, there are a few mysteries remaining - by almost any who actually looks into the subject. The Big Bang, the age of the Universe, the age of Earth, dark matter, gravity, gravity waves, black holes whatever. It’s all in public domain now; you can lead a hoss to water but you can’t make him drink. Revel in your time.
I have made cables, bought cables, all sorts. The better brand (higher priced than home made) cables are definitely superior to any home made cables. Where the low cost manufacturers cables are about on the same level. So I am saying "You get what you pay for" across the board in cables for audio equipment. The slope is non-linear. So that $1000 cable pair is only a little better than that $400 cable pair... And a $10,000 pair is only a little better than the $1000 pair. But knowing audiophiles, those small differences add up to big hearing claims. There are trade offs, and different brands seem to have slightly different flavors.So making your own cables can save a little money. but those cables are NOT ’giant killers’. And everyone knows that. *some schmuck would just be making those and everyone would buy them since even the Golden Eared could hear how great they are? NOT. HAPPENING.
Aolmrd, Wikiquotes lists that Einstein quote as DISPUTED since it only has one unsourced reference. Look to the bottom of the wikiquote page on Einstein in the yellow disputed section.
Bingo! It’s obviously not (rpt not) something Einstein would ever say, as I said before. Richard Feynman, on the other hand, is quoted as saying something pretty close,
”If I could explain it to the average person they wouldn’t have given me the Nobel prize.”
I find this quote from John C. Lilly to be useful: "" In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true is true or becomes true, (*For you) within certain limits to be found experientially and experimentally. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. ""The *(for you) I found included in other versions of this quote.And it applies. What you believe in, you look for things to confirm it is true. So if you believe in it, you find it to be true through reinforcement in things you experience.Remembering this statement has made me a much better skeptic. LOL
Many of us Aphiles, yes even known ones of good assumed audio character here on the Gon, have sold our big dollar branded cables and made DIY ICs and speaker cables using Duelund stranded copper wire in cotton. These certainly do offer the kind of sound quality found in a great many of the branded cables selling for up to $2000 a set. Also, several branded cable makers now use this bulk wire in their designs. Also, several noted and respected audio gurus such as Jim Smith also understand how great this wire is. No, not everyone would use it because there would be no differentiation in the marketplace, no choices, not enough profit margin, and mostly because we Aphiles cannot agree on what sounds good.
Unfortunately I, like many fellow audio enthusiasts, have owned far too many brands of audio cable over the years. I have spent too much money as I look back now on these cables. I have also made many DIY cables with varying degrees of sonic success. The newer Duelund bulk wire is a special find and does offer a viable means for the audio enthusiast to spend far less money on cabling and achieve great sound.
gosta asks: "
Is it true that cables can sense the difference between classical and rock signals?
" The answer is yes. My cables know when I am playing Bach vs Stravinsky vs Shostakovitch! The difference between Miles Davis, Ornette Coleman, Benny Goodman and Sun Ra. Even the differences between Miles Davis various groups! The difference between the Beatles. Chuck Berry, The Clash, Radiohead, and Joni Mitchell.My cables talk to me about what they think of every performer.... all the time. But they never refuse to pass the signal. At least so far.
geoff sez: "
When classical music is played electrons in cables not only drift, they also drift off to dreamland.
" Is that true for you even when playing Bartok? Stravinsky? (Mahler fer; sure!) When I was a teen, I would listen via my Koss PRo4a phones in the bedroom where my stereo was.. and sometimes could follow just one instrument in the orchestral piece, or listening so intently I would like fall into a trance. Not asleep, but not awake either. And snap out when the tonearm lifted.. Back in 1965 66 LP or radio was all there was. Never happened with the radio though..
On a good system playing Symphonic music most cables make the entire string section sound like one big mass of sound . A few cables make them sound like individual violins playing together . OFTEN this is a deed of the recording engineers . But on the better labels, BIS comes to mind , you can hear the difference and for those who love the music AND have been to hundreds of LIVE Symphony Concerts it is a major difference .From my years on Audiogon I would guess there are perhaps twenty people on here that hear this . The kicker is that it is not the cable alone ,the entire system plays a part, the variations are so numerous it is unlikely any given person is going to find it unless they are specifically looking for it and without symphonic , choir or big-band as a priority they have no reason to, which is very good news for their bank account
I have to agree one of the signs of a resolving system is the massed strings are individuals playing together, instead of just an odd lump of noise. Same for choral works. particularly (for me) Carmina Burana (Karl Orff) When the chorus of individuals singing together, and you can hear them each and all. (I remember auditioning back in 1983, Infinty RSIIa in a Chicago store, and that was the first time with speakers I could hear the individual voices of the Carmina Burana chorus just spread out in front of me..) Recently I noticed in a Jazz recording the striking of the cymbal was a strike where the sounds of the metal of the brush as it touched the cymbal, and then the ringing as separate sounds. The breaths of the singer.. Lots of tells in a really resolving system.
After the gold rush or Blue train (and other songs) from Trio. It doesn't get more beautiful than that. You know they are there but you also want to see them...
IMO, Mahler really didn't become a prominent composer (other than live performances) until stereo came into being. Mahler's orchestration demands the capability to listen in "stereo," permitting the listener to hear the depth and distinctions among the instruments. Also, IMO, stereo permits a better dynamic range of recordings. (My favorite is the 2nd, with Bernstein)
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