Hi and fhank you for your words. As far as how I rate them, they're different speakers. The Amati are detailed, image well, but require massive amounts of power. They are the speaker that you sit down and enjoy while drinking wine. Jazz, classical, etc are the type the of music that come to mind. If you like to enjoy quality sound at low to moderate volume then it's a great speaker.
Tbe monitor audio is a more dynamic powerful
speaker. They pound your chest with bass and attack. They do dynamic swings really well. Almost like my renaissance which I Believe is the best speaker under 35,000 dollars. So because I love dynamic powerful music, the platinums are for me. However, the futura are far more beautiful pieces. They make the monitor audio look cheap in comparison.
It's all about a compromise this hobby. Can't really have it all in one speaker or amplifier. What we need to do first as audiophiles is to identify what is our preference with music in general and then find the speakers that meet our needs. No speaker will do every type of music perfectly.
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i am using wireworld eclipse 7. I have used nordost and cardas as well and i felt wireworld clables are my cup of tea. |
Guys,
there is a fellow audiophile friend of mine who came to my home and heard my renaissance and fell in complete love with them. He liked them so much that he ended up buying a pair, but when they were delivered to his house the wife began to complain about their size, etc and so he decided to sell them before he opened them and not begin an argument with her. They are listed on ebay and i can vouch for them. Again, read my reviews above, i find this is THE BEST speaker under 35k dollars BY FAR. It smoked my sonus amati futuras, revel salon 2s, Dynaudio C4 Platinums, etc. This is THE BEST sounding speaker i have heard and before i bought them i went around listening to a ton of speakers such as magicos, rockports, wilson audios, etc and NOTHING outperformed these Renaissance electrostatics.
If you are interested, please feel free to reach out to me. As mentioned above, they are currently listed on ebay. He also has the MASSIVE and newly released center channel Martin Logan illusion. Both speakers are in black gloss.
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I agree. i have tried other high end brands and i honestly can't hear a difference. To me, spending a lot of money on cables is really a big mistake. First off, when you try to sell them after you are done with them, you will take a bath trying to sell them. You will be lucky if you can recuperate 25% of the value. That said, there are plenty of people who spend 5,000 dollars on a power cord! which i think is ridiculous. |
Next up, Classe Audio CAM-600 mono blocks:
These are some serious monsters. They posses almost limitless power reserves and run very cool regardless of how hard you push them. I can't hear the cooling fans at all even after cranking them up for long periods of time. These monos have a level of smoothness that would match those speakers that are too bright sounding or forward sounding such as Paradigm, klipsch, etc.
Today i am going to be using a pass labs xp20 preamplifier to see what this will do to these monos and my pass xs150 monos.
The classe audio cam600 is THE BEST amp to come out of classe audio. Having owned the cam300s before, this is far superior in many ways. Again, if you are looking to smooth out your current set up and need to tame those high frequencies a bit, this amp will do the trick while still being detailed. |
Sequence: I love the sound of these with 1.2kw monos and the simaudio 740p and I’ll be honest and say it grabs me more than with the reference 6. I don’t find as much synergy with these speakers and reference 6. That said, the Luxman 900u preamp is amazing with these speakers. Things just pop out of the speakers in a crazy way. I am probably going to use it as my reference with these speakers. Im just shocked at how much better these speakers are than the 300ii. Those sounded dull in comparison. I almost can’t believe they share the same tweeter.
One last thing, although I think these are very efficient speakers, they really open up with more power. I tried the Luxman amp and I feel like 300 Watts is too little. The 1.2kw are actually 1600watts !
Has anyone ever biamped these .?????? |
Reference 6: outstanding preamp with an amazing bottom end and Highs. The best highs I’ve heard with electrostatics
No52: excellent highs and mids
luxman900u: excellent smooth sound with insane soundstage. Best highs I’ve heard with tweeters. |
esoteric k1 is on a whole other level when comparing to the lumin s1 and chord dave. I can't deny how amazing this unit truly is. Zero fatigue, zero harshness, massive amount of detail and just pure pleasure to listen to. i also feel the emotion of the music for the very first time. With a price tag of 31,000 dollars, it is expensive, but it really shows you WHY. Everything about it is just better. The synergy with my diablo 300 is also off the charts. I regret letting go of the 925 rowlands because this k1 would have elevated things to a whole new level. IMPRESSIVE SOURCE without a doubt. |
Ok guys so since you all failed to guess which integrated then I’ll share the news. The integrated is the new Luxman L509x which is currently in huge demand. There’s none available until end of August. I will be comparing it against the diablo. This integrated is supposed to be incredible and the best integrated ever built by luxman.
Who do you got winning ? The diablo or the Luxman ? I think the diablo will have the slam but I don’t think it will hang with the musicality of the luxman.
What are your thoughts ?
Tomorrow the esoteric k1 arrives and Friday the luxman. It’s going to be a real test for the gryphon !!
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It’s 120 watts per channel... you’re not looking at the right model.... |
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Thank you for the consultation that I didn’t ask for. I appreciate the diagnosis which you are clearly a part of because you are reading my thread every day I am sure.
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Well, well... my next pair of Monos And preamp are shipping soon.... it’s going to be an insane contest here... |
Jafant: I want to choose a winner from each type of technology and here’s my take:
best class d: Jeff Rowland 925s
best class a: pass labs xa200.5/xs150
besr class ab: I gotta give this to luxman...
best overall: Rowland 925s.
I love each technology and I’d say speakers would be the determining factor as to what to get. I think Wilsons love class ab more than anything else. I wish I could have tried my 925s with electrostatics or the revel salon 2s...
that said, I am currently looking for a 2nd pair of speakers to bring. I would say the renaissance keep ringing my ears and the salon 2s... those are the 2 speakers That id like to bring back. |
i will be comparing both pieces. Nobody said anything about it being a benchmark. However, i want to be sure that something is understood:
Integrated units are an amazing bang for the buck.
That said, my next set up just shipped today and it consists of this:
luxman 900 preamp
luxman 900 amps (2 of these for mono configuration)
are you all ready? |
Esoteric k1 just hit my door... been playing music for about one hour and this is something really magical... I’ll give my thoughts later |
My bluesound vault 2 going optical out into the optical input of the k1 esoteric sounds better than using the expensive 1000 dollar usb cable connected to my MacBook and using roon to control it... Hmm the entire debate about usb being better than optical... |
They are still the best amps I’ve owned. I won’t change my mind until I try something that is in the same league. I am now playing with gear that is less money and I am quite aware of the sound not being at the same level where it was before. As far as me hyping up, those amps were the best amps the day I cranked them
and was not thinking I’d sell them. Also, just because a certain amp doesn’t seem to work for me does not mean it won’t for you. Perfect example was my ref 10. It sounded amazing with revel salon 2s, Martin Logan but not so much with the Wilsons. I still believe that is the best preamp I have ever heard period and the best source I’ve owned is the esoteric k1. The gap between this dac and the rest I’ve owned is rather large. It’s not small by any means.
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Yep this esoteric dac is my best component right now. No question. |
Stay tuned next week... the Luxman 900u monos and preamp arrive next Thursday and I will use the esoteric k1.... I have a feeling I may be beyond shocked....
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Riaa, I didn’t get the g1 clock. I did not want to spend that kind of money because honestly when I have to sell it, there’s no guarantee the buyer will want that clock and what am I going to do with it ? |
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No. Devialet is Russian roulette. That stuff is hard to sell according to My connections. They have offered me insane deals because they can’t move it. Unless I get it for a steal I have no intentions of trying that brand. I don’t ever try brands that I can’t sell once I’m done with them. Same with Magico speakers. Unless I steal them, I can’t ever try them. One good acquaintance of mine spent more than a year to sell his magicos and had to take a nasty hit to sell them. I need to stay with mainstream stuff. Yes some say magicos are better than Wilsons and there fine but Wilson has a big following and for every magico sold, 10 Wilsons sell. My selection of components also come from the advice I get from my connections. I wanted to try rogue audio as well and i was told to stay away. Of course I was told to try a 800d3 B&w because that’s easy to sell.
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Guido: the k1 does not have filters like previous esoteric dacs. They removed those filters this time around. |
Update: luxman L509x is incredible. Musicality is outstanding and smoothness is out of this planet. I actually can’t decide what’s better. The gryphon is awesome as well but they present things differently. The luxman has the edge in terms of musicality and spaciousness. The gryphon has the slam and dynamics and punch. The gryphon presentation is as if you were at the club with the music sounding huge, deep and clean regardless of the volume. The luxman presents it as if you were at a live event with great emotion and silkiness.
Bottom line, neither is better than the other. They both do things different and it’s really about what kind of music you listen to. If you listen to instrumental music then the luxman is the way to go. If you listen to pop, hip hop, electronic dance music, rock, then gryphon diablo 300.
If you have speakers that need more silkiness and less brightness along with great mids then go with luxman 509x. If they need a sledge hammer attack then go with gryphon 300. In my current situation and with Wilson speakers, I prefer the diablo but if I had sonus fabers, B&w, klipsch horns, etc then I’d with luxman.
That said, good luck trying to find a 509x Luxman integrated.... they can’t build them fast enough and they won’t have any until end of August. I had to pay top dollar to bring mine here. That’s how bad I wanted it and I am glad I did. I’d have zero issues paying the asking price of $9500 dollars. Oh and one last thing, it runs very cool so those of you with heat concerns should have zero worries. The diablo runs very hot though. |
I can assure anyone that Luxman is not low end. That said, I can’t force anyone to believe me. Luxman has always been amazing and I have nothing bad to say about it. I am getting the Luxman 900u components next week for the 4th time... what’s that tell ya ? It’s still one of my favorites. Will gryphon separates best it ? Maybe it but it isn’t worth the massive amount of cash. As good as gryphon is, it isn’t leaps and bounds better than luxman. Hell, I own both of their integrateds right now and I can say whatever I wish. If we talk about construction and looks, the luxman kills the gryphon. In my opinion, Rowland, esoteric and luxman are the top in terms of looks. They all make amazing looking gear. Gryphon makes amazing components but they are ugly. When you see my Luxman 509x next to the gryphon diablo 300, the diablo looks like a thing from the movie predator. Not pretty at all. |
585: good mids and highs. Ok bottom end.
Inferior to 2 below.
luxman 509x: smooth, liquid, silky highs and awesome mids. Good bass. Never fatiguing regardless of volume level.
diablo: big bass, detailed, amazing speaker control. It can get a tad bright when cranked up. Source needs to be carefully selected with this piece.
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I would say yes the luxman is better. |
Thanks John. Reading comments like yours makes this thread all worth it to me. I spend time here and share MY EXPERIENCE with amplifiers and certain speakers from time to time. I love to see how the law of diminishing returns kicks in after a certain price point. I've seen that the best bang for the buck for amplifiers is in the 4k-9k range. That's where most of the best amps I've owned lie. I will say once you go over the 10k price point you start to see the diminishing effect. I love my xs pass labs amps, but see they worth 4 times as much as my Classé cam600s? No they're not. The sound isn't 4 times better or 400% better.
I have someone wanting to trade me some Jeff Rowland 925s for my pass labs xs150 but I'm not 100% sure. Remember, I want to keep going with this hobby so I have to carefully select my amps and think about the marketability of it so I don't get stuck with them. Brands like Magnus audio really make me curious but that's an amp that will be hard to sell once I'm done with it.
In order to stay On top, you just only stick to brands that have a following. Yes, this means that there will be a lot of brands that will never make it in my room but im ok with that.
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Riaa: you stole the words out of my mouth. You nailed it. Gryphon isn’t making a fashion statement. The Luxman integrated exposes how ugly it is. Of course if all you have in your room is the gryphon then you don’t have another piece to compare it to
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Ok so it’s a dog fight here today... I left my Luxman on since I got it last Friday and now it’s an entire different animal. I pushed both hard just now and the Luxman just stays smooth, no shouting, no nothing. Now the gryphon is sounding darker and less detailed than the Luxman. Oh crap ! |
Hahahah. Yep, I hope gryphon keeps reading my thread. They need to make their products nicer looking. Why do the top Japanese brands make such gorgeous equipment and some domestic brands like rogue, constellation, ps audio etc look like some stuff you find at someone’s garage sale ? |
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i can understand that. I do believe that "old school" design is more reliable. Think about it, what if the screen on the gryphon went out? you can't turn it on or off or listen to it, but if the meters on the luxman went out you can still fire it up and listen. I can't lie, for the money it is very hard to beat luxman. My step father still has a luxman integrated he bought back in 1994 and it just finally went bad. That is 24 years of flawless performance. What else can you possibly ask for? Anytime i have owned luxman i always felt like i don't ever have to worry about it breaking. Just a sense of trust. |
3 hours into the listening session at low to less than moderate volume levels and the luxman keeps its distance from the diablo 300. The loudness button on the luxman is incredible. If you have neighbors, a wife that complains about you blasting music too loud at night (mine complains) or you just don’t want to bother others, then this button saves your life.
I will say the luxman may lose to the gryphon in massive attack when cranked up and also sometimes i may hear a little better separation on the gryphon. Soundstage size is really the same. If you have hungry speakers then the gryphon would be perfect. This does not mean the luxman won’t work, but if you get trigger happy and decide to blast it really loud then the luxman may not flex enough muscle for you at that volume level, but the gryphon won’t have an issue.
Lastly, those of you who are "purists" and against the loudness feature on the luxman, all you need to know is that i am trying to find enjoyment at any volume level and this button does the trick. Most other amps fall apart at low volume levels unless it's pure class a power. If being a "purist" means i need to hear my music sound like garbage because i can't use a certain feature then i don't want that component. All those brands that are proud to be "neutral" are the type of brands of stay away from. Here are a few brands i can tell you what their sound signature is like:
Luxman: smooth, silky, detailed, big soundstage, zero fatigue
Rowland: lively feeling to the music as if you were at the venue listening in person.
Gryphon: Big, bold, powerful, amazing bass control (hercules sound signature)
Classe: Dark sounding, laid back and relaxed.
Hegel: Amazing bottom end control, not bright, not laid back. Powerful sounding
Mark Levinson: Amazing mids, good highs, so so bass control
You may be wondering, then who the hell is dead neutral with no sound signature? well... Boulder would be that brand. Too cold, sterile, neutral, no sound signature of any kind which makes it a hell of a challenge to make it sound the way you want it. |
It’s a dog fight here between integrateds. I left both on all night long and I’m listening now.... things have morphed now that both were left on for over 24 hours. |
Good post techno dude. Both integrateds are stellar and incredible in so many different ways. Tomorrow I will be receiving the Luxman 900u amps and the preamp. First time ill be listening to Luxman 900u in mono. On Thursday I’m picking up the new wireworld gold series 8 speaker cables to try.
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Kw6: it’s not the integrated. It’s the 509x....
denon: thanks. As far as the finale of this show, they are already here packed in my garage. They landed here today. Luxman 900u monos and preamp. 4th owning this stuff but it’s the first time doing it mono.
I don’t expect the 9500 integrated to
hang with 45k worth of Luxman gear.
I expect the combo to attempt to take down the Rowland 925s if anything.
So yes the gryphon 300 and Luxman 900u are excellent. Both present different walls of sound. It’s almost like saying Lamborghini vs Ferrari. It’s about taste and flavor at that point. Bottom line guys, neither blows away the other. If your budget is 9500 then get the Luxman. Don’t feel bad for not getting the gryphon. You aren’t missing anything. The only time I can recommend the gryphon is if you have crazy hard to drive speakers. Something like rockports. For the money, the Luxman is better no question. But overall, they are both excellent.
Don’t get all worked up as far as what’s better. The only thing is the gryphon is certainly harder to get but so is the Luxman 509x. Both are just outstanding for little money.
PLEASE DONT CONFUSE THE LUXMAN 590 with 509!!!!!!
now the esoteric k1 is the best component I own... incredible |
Word on the street is that the new McIntosh 611/1.25kw sound terrible... hint hint... |
Audiolabyrinth: I suspect we will be talking once I get that amp here. I am now thinking of doing the ref10/krell 700 and the massive Neoliths. That should be one scary set up.
alexias are still on my list. I got a great deal on a pair of Neoliths but I don’t know if my room can accommodate them. I mean they do fit for sure but I don’t know how big be room needs to be. I don’t want to spend that kind of money and be dissatisfied. Granted, the neoliths have always blown me away but I’d hate to bring them here and choke them. Anyone here tried Neoliths in a room of about 15x20? Speaker would be on the short wall.
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i like the diablo. No doubt but I wouldn’t be heartbroken if I couldn’t afford it and had the Luxman. |
UPDATE:
I have listed my M900U AMPLIFIER AND C900U PREAMPLIFIER FOR SALE. I HAVE 2 M900Us amplifiers as you know. I am making a bold move by selling them right away. Bigger plans are coming and these 3 pieces have to go!!
Luxman integrated will be listed soon as well. If you wanted any of these luxman pieces, go check out my listing for them! |
Nothing was realized. I heard my monos with the 900u and it’s a superior experience to the Luxman integrated. More soundstage, more detail, far more separation and less congestion. Pretty much it sounds like the integrated but to a much more massive scale. Never run out of steam regardless of the load. Is it better than the Rowland 925 with the 900u? No it is not. The only thing I’d say it has over the Rowland is the size of the soundstage. It’s larger and nice 3D sound.
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I'm glad you find my thread interesting. To those of you who have reach out me because of this thread, I hope you are all enjoying my multiple recommendations. I really enjoy this journey and although at times I get frustrated because I'm never content due to the constant switching of units, I'm assuming this would apply to most hobbies.
That said, some of you have reached out to me about your interest in my xs150s pass Labs. I am not per say interested in parting ways with them BUT if the right offer is made then sure I am open to letting them go. As some of you know, these retail for 65k and no dealer that I know stocks these amps for a demo so you have to pretty much by them outright. Dealer cost on these amps is $39,000 dollars plus whatever the selling dealer wants to make on top. I do however understand that this is a lot of money for some people so I could be open to taking in some amplifiers plus cash on top in order to facilitate this deal. I would be interested mainly in other pass labs amps, mark Levinson 536s monos, dan agostino momentums, and amps of this caliber. However, I am NOT interested in an even trade or just simply swapping gear. I would need cash on top. Please note, this is ONLY AN IDEA at this time so I am not 100% sure I want to do this just yet.
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Can’t comment yet. It will be an expensive move. |
I am moving them out because I want to purchase something I’ve never tried. I got a chance to buy something at a great deal so I need to let them go. Someone will be extremely happy with these. After Rowland’s, this is the besr I’ve heard.
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Just plugged in the new wireworld gold
eclipse 8 speaker cables and it’s a HOLY SH@T improvement without even breaking in.... wow im super impressed
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The fun with integrateds is beginning. I am selling stuff off and only keeping gryphon. I had to sign something not allowing me to sell it anywhere online. Gryphon May be in my garage for quite sometime. Gryphon reads my thread here. They aren’t stupid but neither am I. They love to control the used market. |
Went from wireworld silver 7 to gold 8.
I hear far more detail and smoothness. Less grain in the highs and less shoutiness at loud volume. Excellent cable.
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Hahaha. No raidho for me. Heard them before and they are just blah. Not my cup of tea.
Im contemplating either speakers or amp/preamp options. Not sure yet. My luxman pieces are all for sale now and listed so once those are gone then I’ll know what I want to do next. |
In terms of speakers, so far I’m contemplating these:
b&w 800d3
martin Logan 15a
paradigm persona (not sure on which model)
wilson Alexia
Magico s3 mk2
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The 509x is still here with me. Haven’t listed it yet |
Haileys is what I could contemplate. |
