@ron17 - does whitecamaross have any experience yet with the X350.8? I missed it, if that's the case...
Dave
Dave
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@ron17 - when I spoke to the folks at Pass Labs, they mentioned that the X150.8 is a little more "just the facts", and the X250.8 is a little more like the X350 I used to have - a little more of that tube 3D like sound.
@whitecamaross - It will be very interesting to see what you think of the XA200.8 vs. the X250.8!!
Dave
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Ron,
There's a fairly good priced X350.8 on Audiogon right now :-)
Dave
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That’s why I mentioned "fairly good" and not "good" or "great" price :-) I definitely agree with you whitecamaross on all points. Even though I had an X350 before, I think I’d go with the X250.8 as well, especially for the lower height.
Dave
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Returning the Emotiva 7 channel Gen 3 series today, since it's near the end of the 30 day eval. For someone looking to go separates and needing a 7 channel amp in that price range, I really cannot imagine a better amplifier.
Dave
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The INT-250 from Pass Labs might be another good integrated (minus the DAC).
Dave
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@whitecamaross - I'm trying to recall, but I don't think you've reviewed any of the McIntosh 7 channel amps (MC8207/MC207). I wonder how well those would do on the solid state side of things.
I think you've found that tubes are the ultimate way to go for 2 channel, and the best solid state for 2ch is the Pass Labs. It would be interesting if you could try the Pass Labs XA160.8 or XA200.8 to see how it compares with the McIntosh tube amps.
Regarding multi-channel amps, I believe you had Plinius way ahead of anything else. As I mentioned above, just wondering how the McIntosh amps (MC8207/MC207) would compare?
Thanks, Dave
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Thanks whitecamaross! Great info!!
Dave
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I'm confused. It seems from your post that the Luxman had better bass/mids/highs than the Hegel, yet it's the Hegel that you say you like overall??
BTW, how did these two setups compare with the 585?
Dave
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I've heard that the ATI Class D amps have a bit more energy than the Theta Dreadnaught D. A lot of folks really seem to like both of these amps. I had the Theta DD for a while.
Dave
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I was wondering the same thing...
Dave
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If I could have a mono for each channel of my home theater setup and price did not matter, the XS amps from Pass Labs would be my dream setup. I'd have to get a different room/house too :-) However, since I'm going with a multi-channel amp, I'm still thinking about the Plinius Odeon might some day/year make it to my system.
Dave
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@jrunr - my guess is that it's good sonics
@whitecamaross - I'm going to speak for myself, but perhaps others might agree - I absolutely enjoy your journey with these amps, even though I might not ever own many of them. I was actually hoping you would try the XA200.8 before the XS series, to see how it compares to the other amps you have tried. I'm sure it's a very big step up from the XA30.8 that you had, and may have beat the X250.8. Of course, then I would have really been curious what you would think about the XS series, and here we are. Congrats on the amps!
Dave
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Mmmm.....simaudio has the Moon Evolution MC-8 multi-channel amp - perhaps something to consider on the multi-channel side of things? Requires 240V though :-)
Dave
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Have you tried a recent .8 series Pass Labs in your system? Did you buy the MA-300 from the dealer you mentioned?
Dave
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@whitecamaross You mentioned: Pass lab class A amps tend to sound very liquid, clean, detailed, but they do lack the slam that their class ab versions have. Is this all based upon the XA30.8? My guess is that you would probably want at least the XA100.8, if not the more powerful XA’s to make a better comparison with the X250.8 and X350.5. I'm thinking the XA***.8 versions will fare better than the XA***.5 versions, if you are looking to compare the slam. Dave |
Is that based upon only listening to the XA30.8? If so, then you may want to try a more powerful XA***.8 (not .5) to see if it's still the case. I think the gap will be greatly narrowed.
Dave
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I would agree with Charles - if based solely on what WC wrote about the three, my choice would be the Luxman.
Dave
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Great points about the looks. I have known folks who have bought amps for their looks and others who have not bought amps because of looks. Of course, amps that look beautiful to some might not be attractive to others. That must be a tough thing for an amp company.
I myself don't care as much about looks - I am all about performance. If I was looking for something like the Diablo had killer sound in my price-point, I wouldn't care about the looks. In fact, Predator-like looks would do me just fine :-)
Dave
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I'm guessing the fun with integrateds is done. I wonder how the Pass Labs INT-250 would have done? Looking forward to what you have next :-)
Dave
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It will be interesting to get your take on those speakers. Some folks have described the persona speakers to be on the bright side, which would not fair well with your desire to turn things up. Maybe the Luxman would sound great with them, since it’s on the smoother side of the spectrum.
Dave
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ron17 is right - make sure you have some help! If I was nearby I would definitely come over and help. Take care of that back!
Dave
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Just received an upgraded Plinius Odeon on a pallet today, and I will hook it up this weekend. Looking forward to listening to it!
Special thanks to whitecamaross for this thread and for the PM's!
Dave
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Are you doing 2 channel with the 205 or just using hdmi?
Dave
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@pokey77
You have a Vivid imagination :-)
Dave
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When you mention that the Magicos were suggested for your room, is it the current room or the room you've mentioned that you will be moving into next? Thanks,Dave
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@whitecamaross As mentioned above, you could try something like the Lyngdorf Audio TDAi 3400 integrated. It’s 200 watts (8 ohms) and 400 watts (4 ohms), but it’s also a DAC and has RoomPerfect. It would be interesting to see how this unit would do against your heavyweight integrateds and separates. There’s one on Audiogon right now............................ Dave |
MIT cables make sense for the Magico, since their sound signature is known (at least what I've read) to be smoother and/or more laid back and relaxed. Dave |
@whitecamaross,
Exciting news about the Luxman gear! I'm still curious though what you would think of the higher powered Pass Labs XA gear in your system, especially with a Pass Labs preamp. Loving the journey!
By the way, I have my Plinius Odeon new, and I can tell it is something special. It's like a new amp though, since they did an upgrade to it, so I'm giving it some more time. More to come...
Dave
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It is definitely understandable if resale value comes into play - not opening the Sopra 3's could save some money.
However, this is WC we're talking about here :-)
If anyone thinks that one of these two pairs of speakers is the final destination for WC, my bet is that you are absolutely wrong. Sure, he might end up mightily impressed with the Sopras or the Magicos, and he might even keep them for a while, but he will most certainly not keep them long term. It's just not his way of doing things, and let's face it, it's why many of us are here tagging along for the ride. I definitely enjoy it!
With that said, even if WC returns/sells the Sopras without opening them, it does not mean that he won't consider them again in the future.
Thanks for the fun and entertaining ride WC!
Dave
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techno_dude: I respectfully disagree with your statement - "The one someone sells is never the one to get." I've purchased used items that have been absolutely terrific. If the goal is to go for the very best, you better have lots of money and be willing to go through a lot of equipment (like WC), because it's a long-term quest. Not sure anyone will ever get there.
And, I was going to mention something similar to what WC mentioned (actually I did allude to it, if you look at my previous post :-). Just because someone sells something and picks up something different (with the assumption that it's better), does not mean that they won't drop that one for another one.
Dave
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@riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook
You will like your new Odeon - I received one too with the Ultimate Upgrade about a month or two ago. Dynamics like you would not believe and great transparency. It will make you rethink your cables and other equipment, because it is more revealing of differences.
Dave
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I see the Sopras listing as well. WC is spending time getting the Magicos dialed in, and it seems from the description in the listing that spending time dialing in the Focals would be a benefit for them as well. And, while WC thinks that better amps will help improve the sonics from the Magicos, it might also help to improve the sonics from the Focals. Looking forward to how this progresses for both speakers... Dave
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I just heard that Classe Audio closed their doors...
Dave
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@fsonicsmith - Look at 4 and 5 posts above your post :-)
Dave
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Actually, the MX is not the way to go, if wanting to use RoomPerfect in a high end 2 channel setup. The preamp section in the MX is not going to be anywhere close to what WC is using for preamps. I am betting that using the MX preamp section is what lost purity, not necessarily the RP. If anything, the RP helps that preamp section sound better than without RP, but it's still not the best preamp section.
The better way to go is to just get the MEN220 and use it in line with the existing amp and preamp. Plus it's a lot less expensive than an MX. Not much to lose trying this out... Dave
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Agreed WC, that would be an awesome shootout. I also agree with others, this is your thread - do it YOUR way. Suggestions are cool, but when those suggestions turn into frustrations, etc, then it's not cool. These are your choices and your ride, and I'm happy to be a passenger. Dave
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Well said! It's unfortunate that you have to explain yourself. I don't understand why lalitk felt like the comment was necessary. I think most other folks here appreciate your comparisons and experiences that you've shared. Plus, you've even given advice to some (me included!)
Thanks for the fun and the information - I'm truly enjoying it!
Dave
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I'm curious as well about the ATI AT5X... class d amps as well. I'm hearing great things about them. The ATI AT54X... amps are rated for 500 watts/channel, while the AT52X... amps are 200 watts/channel. I'm thinking about trying an ATA AT543... to see how it does for the front three channels of my HT.
Dave
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@whitecamaross - have you had a Theta Casablanca IV or IVa?
@corvette01 - the Theta CB IV is my favorite processor (have not tried the IVa), and the McIntosh is my second favorite. I've also had Krell, Arcam, Marantz, Onkyo for HT. Back when I did 2 channel, I loved my Pass Labs X1 (SS) and the Cary SLP-05 (Tube).
Dave
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By the way, ATI/Theta now also owns Datasat.
Dave
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@auxinput:
I'll keep this short, since this is whitecamaross' amp thread. I had the Krell S1200U 3D, and it was my second favorite processor for both movies and 2ch, when no EQ is applied. First would still have to be the Theta CBIV. With RoomPerfect, the McIntosh jumps slightly ahead of the Krell (in my room). With Xtreme D-2 dacs, the CBIV is actually a touch smoother than the Krell - kind of the opposite of what you found. I now have the Xtreme D-3 DAC, which does make it more dynamic.
I did not find the Krell or the Theta shouty or bright or thin or harsh solid state in my room/setup. If anything, I found the XMC1 (which I also owned for a period of time) a little bit thinner and not as smooth sounding.
The SP3 is liked by a lot of folks, and I have not seen it described as you have described it. Perhaps there's something different with the rest of your system and/or room that is contibuting - so, getting back to the subject of this thread - what amps are you running with your setup?
Dave
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Has anyone tried the Gen 3 of the Emotiva XPA amps? I had the XPA-7 Gen 3 for a while, and it was a nice amp. Plenty of power for sure, but not as full sounding as I like. I now have a Plinius Odeon (thanks to the recommendation from whitecamaross :-), and it is working out very nicely.
Dave
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@whitecamaross - I agree about the Plinius - I'm not looking for another amp. I just mentioned the XPA 3, because I had it at one time and I was wondering if others hard heard the amp - especially since Emotiva amps entered the discussion.
Dave
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Honestly, I'd try the JR 925's instead of the Black. Or, try both - one at a time :-) I'm sure the belcanto black would have tremendous bass. What I would worry about - is the bass dry, how are the highs - are they too tight - not providing enough air, decay, extension, etc?? Trying it out would be the way to find out for sure, but those would be my concerns going into it.
Dave
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If the description of the Ref 10 is accurate from the What's Best audio forum, then I would say the boulder 2010 is definitely the one to go with! Plus, you'll always be curious, if you don't :-)
Dave
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I'm not sure that Oppo touted itself to be a reference redbook player, as much as reviewers and/or users were touting it. Nevertheless, the main point, as pointed out by whitecamaross, is that it cannot compare to many dedicated cd players. Yes, there is a price difference, but that was the point - the Oppo was touted to be reference for a lower price.
Dave
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@whitecamaross - I'm sure the xa200.5s will be nice amps - I just wish it could have been the xa200.8s instead. Some day perhaps :-)
Dave
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I'm sure he will answer, but I think he had the JL Gotham and then went to the Rel G1 or G2. The Rel 212/SE looks interesting as well.
Dave
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I kind of agree. Folks have the right to voice their opinion about equipment. techno_dude made an opinion - not about someone - but about equipment - he does not favor the BHK stuff. Others might favor it. Some folks think McIntosh is great - others think it is mid-fi. Should the mid-fi opinions be squashed? WC makes opinions all the time - this amp blew away this other amp, etc. viber6 just mentioned that his experience with MIT was they were veiled and they sucked. It's an opinion about "equipment".
Perhaps more constructive would be to provide a counter-opinion, rather than beat up the person that just offered an opinion on equipment. Dave
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