Hi,
i have zero experience with 350.8. I would say the 250.8 should suffice in most applications plus it's easier to live with than the 350.8. The 350.5 ran really warm and I would never attempt to put it in an enclosure.
I love pass Labs and maybe that's why I'm planning on purchasing my next pass lab amp (200.8 monos).
The issue with pass Labs is that it's a tough sale on the used market. I think it's Reno who's really hurting dealers across the board. Pass Labs is a great brand but it just doesn't hold it's value. It really depreciates as fast as an audi does. I still can't understand the used market. Nothing holds value better than McIntosh and b&w. It's like having apple products.
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Not really... anyone who buys it will lose 1,000 or more trying to unload it. Trust me that's not a good deal. Reno offered me one for less than that during Christmas. The 250.8 is the safest amp to invest on. It sells, its popular and not a lot of $. The expensive pass Labs don't move. They sit for years and don't move. Believe me, I've had dealers offer me their demos below cost just to get out of them.
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If you are a person who worries a lot about heat, pass Labs, old krell, plinius, old delta classe are all amps you should never ever consider. Those are heat guns.
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I have just purchased a pair of McIntosh mc2301s tube monoblocks. I currently have the mc601s and a pair of mc275s. I Believe I will be the first person to ever have all 3 amps at once so I will be sure to give you all a complete rundown of my listening impressions. It should be really interesting because pass Labs is stil at the top of my list but the mc275s seem more holographic than the pass Labs were. They don't have the low end oomph that the pass Labs has because it's tube amp but based on everything I've read and consulted with others, the mc2301 is the last amp to own. It's supposed to have the least floor noise than any other McIntosh amp which could make its presentation really amazing. If the 2301 defeats the pass Labs I owned, I'll be sure to share that. That said, remember I use Martin Logan renaissance speakers so tube based amps will always have more voltage than solid state amps which carry more current. Electrostatics sound better with more voltage than with current which is why I seem to find the mc275s better sounding at normal to moderate levels than pass Labs. However, I also have a different source which I didn't have when I owned the pass Labs amps so I'm sure that's also impacting my listening impressions.
2 of my buddies heard the mc2301s with some sonus faber 100k speakers and they said that it was Mind boggling what they heard. Just simply better than being at the live presentation. I'll be sure to report back to you all. |
Been a pass owner myself. That said, if you have doubts about my findings or my personal opinions then you can certainly skip over my thread and don't read it. I don't collect a dime from anyone for doing this. Nobody pays me a cent. I buy all this gear with my hard earned money and share my personal views so that audiophiles who don't have the means to buy as much gear as I do can actually read what I have to say and let them make their own decisions. If they doubt me then they don't have to follow my thread. There have been a few users here who share my views on a lot of the amps I've owned. I actually have recommended amps to some
of them based on their goals and they are extremely happy with what I recommended. Some of them even message me directly thanking me for my input because it gave them clarity about a certain amp they wanted to purchase. A perfect example would be to go on all forums and try to find someone who has the McIntosh mc275s, mc601s and mc2301s all at once and provide direct comparisons. Right now pass is king with electrostatics in my opinion but the 2301s are SUPPOSED to best anything out there that is tube based. Again, I can't confirm but I will in about 2 weeks. Please know that this hobby is subjective. Magazines are always hyping up products that pay them nice royalties for doing so. Take stereophile for example. They hyped the hell out of the salon 2s and I thought they were really poor performers. No bass and not exciting. Why would all magazines hype them up ? Well it's simple; Harman international does tons of advertising on these magazines And talking crap about their products would mean a loss of revenue in advertising. Makes sense?
I was banned from the avs forum for a reason. I gave my true opinion on several threads and that didn't sit well with dealers who sell stuff through there including their own sales department. It impacts sales when someone with actual experience in the field makes bold statements about products but I don't care. Im very well connected in this industry and can snap my fingers and I get calls for good deals because dealers need money to pay bills and guess what? High end gear doesn't exactly fly off the shelf but bills keep piling up. This is how I have been able to remain on top of this hobby and in other aspects of my life. Remember, at the end of the day I'll tell it like it is. You wanna know why? Because I don't have anything to lose.
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Hi,
i can’t attach pictures here. Audiogon doesn’t support images on forums.
As far as the adcom, it’s a great amp for the money. Unfortunately it’s gone. It was just for me to audition it in my home for an afternoon.
I would say the adcom was slightly warm sounding but I don’t know if it would have become detailed as it warmed up for a day?
Either way that’s a great amp and feels of the same build quality of a pass labs amp.
As far as low volume listening, nothing has sounded better for me than the black system. It remains king at low volume. |
Guys,
i just unpacked the CLX, threw them in room, connected the ati6007 amp with some cheap speaker cables that i had because my wire world silver 7 don't reach and cranked on my Pass labs xp30.
Wow, my jaw hit the ground within the first 10 seconds of listening. I have never heard a speaker sound so good in my room. These speakers have me with my jaw open and i am not even using the world class amps i have owned in the past.
I wanted to just post this real quick at how impressed i am about these CLX. I will come back with more feedback and give you my true opinion on these speakers. So far, holy sh@t is all i can say.. |
Man, i can't believe how fast sounding is the bass. I have never EVER heard bass sound so articulate, coherent, tight, fast, with zero bloating. I am just really impressed here. I am like unable to get off my couch because i just feel like my ears can't get enough of this. |
I would say you need to look into the bhk 300s... very amazing amps...
jc1s do not have the highs of the bhk 300s but They have better bottom end.
It all depends on what you want your speakers to do. I think with your speakers the bhk300s would sound amazing. You don’t need an amp with massive bottom end because you have powered woofers. You just need an amp with smooth highs and great mids and that’s what the bHks do best.
The jc1s are excellent amps even thought they are 14 years old. They are the best amps from parasound. |
I think no matter how you slice it, the bhk will be better than the jc1s with Tritons. I don’t like tubes for home theater because tubes lack dynamics which are needed for home theater. They don’t “explode” with sound when an explosion occurs for example. It’s not what they were designed to do. |
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I don't personally like any McIntosh amps unless it's the 1.2kws.
get the bhk. Trust me on this. |
Ok guys,
I’ve just purchased a pair of theta digital Prometheus monoblocks. They have a class a rating on Stereophile magazine and I’m about to find out why. They are now in my home so get ready because I’m going to compare these amps vs the hegels. :)
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Well I just plugged them in. They have been off for weeks. They don’t have any detail or sparkle. They sound warm when compared to mu hegels. Initially speaking without warm up time, I would say I don’t really like them. Not even close to the black system but maybe they need a few days to sound best. For now they are inferior to all my current amps.
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The amps aren’t new. They are about 2 years old. They shouldn’t need break in time. |
My Theta amps are not new... they are a few years old so they should be ready hopefully after a day of playing music.
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My amps have been plugged in since last night. I plan to do more listening this evening and then do a shoot out between the hegels and theta digital on Friday night.
Time will tell if these amps will come alive and give me more than what I heard last night. |
Home Depot 12 gauge cable... lol. Gotta keep being honest here. I am using it because my wireworld doesn’t reach so once I go back to monoblocks then I’ll use it again.
Right now I’m using the 6007 amp to drive my clx. I just want to get really acquainted with the clx sound by using what I am using. The goal is to later on bring the Luxman set up, another pass labs amp to mate with my xp30 preamp, belcanto black system seems to be also a possibility as well and maybe the Mark Levinson 585 integrated. I want to bring serious fire power to my clx speakers. I really love these speakers. They have grown on me in the 24 hrs I’ve owned them. I have zero regrets about letting go the Cremonese. They were excellent speakers but I will say in only 24 hours the clx have made me forget about the Cremonese.
That said, these could be the set ups I’ll be using in the next 2 weeks:
1. Mark Levinson 585
2. Belcanto black system
3. Pass labs xp30 and 250.8 combo
4. Luxman 900u pre and 900 amp
5. Audio research gs150 amp and pass xp30 preamp
my connection told me that my gs150 amp will probably sound the best because it’s tubes and my panels will love the high voltage.
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That’s the best preamp from McIntosh. That said, it’s not better than other offerings from other manufacturers. For example, xp30 pass labs, audio research reference 6 , Mark Levinson,etc . In terms of beauty, that’s the best looking preamp I’ve seen.
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OK guys,
the Mark levinson 585 integrated and 533h 3 channel amps are here!
The luxman pieces ship tomorrow so it will be an interesting show down! |
Perfect. I will be shuffling a lot of pieces and certainly list them for sale as they each enter and leave my living room.
I am also about to lock down a deal on the Hegel H30 power amp. My goal is to see if this puppy can best the krell 403e, and levinson in terms of resolution, detail, smoothness, etc. |
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Ive read the specs on the jc5 but it honestly doesn’t really make me feel that it would be any different than the jc1s I’ve owned. If anything, it’s just a cheaper alternative to buying jc1. |
Luxman 900u combo and hegel h30 will be shipping to me tomorrow. It’s going to be one hell of a shoot out. Source will be the PS Audio directstram with tidal masters Mqa.
what I plan is this:
Mark Levinson 585 vs Hegel H30/pass xp30
luxman 900u combo vs Hegel H30/xp30
mark Levinson 585 preamp section/Hegel h30 vs Luxman combo
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I am trying to understand why they would more break in since they are a couple of years old... |
No pass labs xa25. I decided to pass on it.
For now, I got 8 amplifiers I’m playing with. I need to start selling some |
I totally get it. I just have far too many amps and I need at least to sell one before I bring another one.
That said, I will be updating my thoughts on the Prometheus now that they’ve been playing for days. Things got interesting
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Nobody loans me a thing. The only person has been Larry. I’ve never ever had anyone loan me an amp. Right now things will come to a hault until I can make space for the mistery Monos arriving next week.
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Theta digital comments coming soon.. also the p5 amp :) |
hi guys, i don't have plans to bring out the brystons for now. I need to first move out a few things before i do that.
That said, here is an update on the Theta Digital Prometheus:
I originally had started to give a quick update on these amps when i first plugged them in. i found them dull, lifeless, zero musicality. i really thought they were terrible in all areas and not a match with my wilsons. I let the amps play for a few days and then i feel like they started to come around:
1. Detail: More sparkle, more highs and less dullness
2. Mids: i felt that the mids also gained space and became more pronounced.
3. Bass: Not really much changed. The bass has always been there since day one. Zero boominess or looseness in the bass.
Overall, i found the theta mono blocks good all around amps. Nothing is really lacking, but also nothing jumps at you. For instance, hegel has massive bass control and that jumps at you. I also found that the theta digital monos sounded more detailed if i used my lumin s1 as my source rather than my ref10. Again, not a bad amplifier by any means and it is a good offering given its price point. Is it better than the hegel h30 or the simaudio 860a? That depends on the speakers. I can see the theta prometheus sounding amazing with forward sounding speakers like focals, klipsch palladiums, b&w. I think of it more like a classe amplifier.
It is neither better or worse than my amps. It is about synergy which is why i did not like it too much with the ref10. I thought using the dac or the luxman made the theta sound more upbeat. |
With that said, i had someone come out yesterday to hear my sasha 2s He had the sasha 1s and he thought my sasha 2s lacked sparkle or more top end. We went through all amps i have here and towards the end we took out the ref10 out of the mix and we connected the lumin s1 and he felt as if the speakers gained more high frequencies, but losing soundstage, but it was more to his liking than using the ref10.
The bottom line here is that system synergy is one important element that can’t be overlooked. I feel as if the ref10 does not shine with my wilsons as much as it did with my salons. That is a fact, but we shall see how my next set of amps do. |
Just bought a chord Dave dac and I went waaaaaaay back in time and bought an anthem p5 amp which I just started to listen to today.
Next week I am receiving my whole new set up which is the mistery monoblocks plus the matching preamp and this is why I have bought a better dac than my ps audio snd lumin s1.
Stay tuned... |
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200.5 vs 200.8 I have not done. I said my impression is that the .5 series is easier to match and to sound good. The .8 is more like a glass with transaparency but that may not always be good. |
Interesting, thanks for the feedback :) |
Ok guys, i have been seating down for the past 2 hours just listening to all sorts of music with my Mark Levinson Integrated 585 and here are my initial impressions:
- Excellent midrange with good full body. If you have anemic speakers with regards to midrange, this integrated will fix that.
- Excellent highs with plenty of sparkle and zero fatigue
- outstanding smooth sounding dac. I actually played a cd through my oppo 205 and connected it to the integrated via optical input and i was impressed at the drastic improvement i heard.
- Very good power and i drove the CLX panels to pretty loud levels and yet the 585 DID NOT shut down or act up. Solid amplification in this unit.
- I LOVE how detailed it sounds at low volumes too. It reminds me ALOT of pass labs class A amps at low volumes.
Overall, this is one solid integrated and i can 100% vouch the review on sterephile magazine and why it was given a Class "a" component rating. As a matter of fact, if i wanted to downsize, keep a nice 2.1 set up that allows me to stream and play anything then this would be my top pick . This is EXCELLENT and will make you feel as if you don’t really need to be using an amp, preamp, dac, monos, etc because it really closes the gap. THE BEST ALL IN ONE BOX solution in my book.
If you are looking to match an amp with a preamp and are afraid of the end result, i highly suggest you just get this unit. Everything plays AMAZINGLY through this puppy and again, the power is far more than you will need because this is the type of unit that you don't need to crank up in order to hear it. TRUST ME, you will hear your music at any volume level. |
I will keep listening to the 585 throughout the week so i can get really acquainted with its sound signature and then this Friday i will receive the Luxman pieces along with the Hegel h30. That is when the party will really start. I suspect the hegel h30 will make these panels sing due to its massive current, but i am not 100% that pure raw power can best the finesse and resolution of the Luxman 900u.
The more i keep digging deep into amplifiers the more i realize that it isn't about the huge wattage, but rather the quality of such watts.
For instance, i said it above that THE BEST 150 CLASS AB WATTS i have ever heard were from the luxman 900u amplifier. The best class a watts have always been from the pass labs 200.5 for me. The best bottom end was probably from the parasound jc1s, krell evolutions and bel canto ref600s. The smoothest highs would be from simaudio 860a, luxman 900u and mark levinson in general. As far as the "omg holy sh(t" seat of the pants feeling amplifier sound, i gotta give that to the pass xa200.5s. I can't take that away from those monsters.
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I will watch tv with the thetas and use them for everything I can think of and see if they actually morph. Right now they are better but not to the level of the hegels. |
I will continue with the class d break in. My only issue is that it really is painful to have to wait weeks for something to sound good again after you unplugged for a day. |
Well guys,
the theta Prometheus have been here for about 4 days, plugged in, music here and there and they have improved for sure. They run cool, no hissing no hiccups no nothing. That said, I think this is an amp that will be amazing for those who do lots of home theater as well because it doesn’t draw a lot of power. I like the overall balance presented. The used street value makes it an incredible deal. However, let’s remember that each amp has limitations. I wish I could have the simaudios detail and mids, the muscular tone of the Hegel h30, Bass from the Hegel, and soundstage of the black system. That would be a tough act to beat. |
I think the break in also takes into account your ears getting adjusted to the sound...
some say it’s actually your hearing that is making changes and not the equipment itself. I can say WITH CERTAINTY that my ears are not the same everyday in terms of critical listening. They are better when I sleep a full night and so so when I’m tired and worse when I’m drunk on whisky or tequila :)
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Ok boys and girls, finally i feel good about revealing my next set of amps which are now traveling to me. These are BY FAR the most expensive amps I’ve bought followed by the xs150 pass labs. It will be an expensive exercise, but we will see..
Soooo, my next set of toys are the Jeff Rowland 925s Monos. :)
we will see how much is the law of deminishing returns when you go to the big leagues :)
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Yep patience is not a virtue of mine. Let’s see how much patience I have. I’ll unpack them and play music through them for a few weeks. I don’t have time to wait until Christmas to see if they can play “we wish you a merry Christmas” with a great soundstage. That’s why I don’t live in a city where public transportation is amazing. I don’t want to sit and wait on the slow bus to pick me up.
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Update: I’ve been playing chord Dave dac for an hour and comparing it to the lumin s1. If this is how this chord Dave will sound then it’s no better than the lumin s1. I’d say it’s probably 5% better ? If that’s all this thing will do over the next few days, I’d go on the record and say it’s not worth the extra money over the lumin s1. This is a demo chord dac so it’s not new or just fresh. It’s already got some hours of playtime. Again, preliminary feeling is that the lumin s1 is crazy good for the money plus it does mqa which the chord Dave does not do.
Jeff Rowland 925s... hmmm. Sigh... will i slaughter you or keep you longer than any other amp I’ve owned?
I’ve pretty much realized one thing which is the whole new thing of “breakin in” gear is somewhat ridiculous. Why can’t it be like a car engine? You don’t rev it past 4,000 rpm for the first 3,000 Miles while it breaks in and soon after you hit 3,000 Miles on the odometer then you are free to connect a 225hp shot of nitrous or a twin turbo set up or a supercharger and have fun ?
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Up next: Jeff Rowland 925s will arrive either this Friday or Monday. I will leave them on playing music and occasionally sit down to listen here and there. Meanwhile, I will be working on a deal on a pair of one of the following:
dag momentum m400s
gryphon colloseum
pass labs xa200.8
yes, I will do my best to bring a real dog fight into this arena. I will take all things into account in order to select my personal winner. |
I don’t play cds so buying the CD player does not make sense for me. |
Lumin is just gaining more respect from
me... the chord Dave doesn’t have s@it on the lumin s1.... I am now using my ref 10 preamp again and I can’t hear a difference between both sources. Sad day but I don’t think the chord will outperform the lumin s1. I will keep updating things. |
You’re right. I’m just shocked. I refuse to spend another dolllar to make the chord better. It has rave reviews and should have been easily capable of beating my Lumin. I don’t want to spend more money like a renderer for the Dave or the chord CD player. It’s ridiculous to have to spend even more money on it. It should have walked in here and beat my Lumin even if it was just by a little bit.
The chord Dave has rave reviews that give it more press than the Lumin. If you read reviews for both, you’d come away with thinking the chord Dave kills the Lumin and guess what... nope. See WHY reviews are so much bs? Take them with a grain of salt... |
Over 150 amps owned in the last 3 years. From pass Labs, classe, krell, bryston, simaudio, ati signature, theta digital, nad, Cary audio, Plinius, and many more I can't remember right now. The McIntosh mc2301 tube amps have totally distanced themselves from the rest of the pack. They are in first place and everyone else fights to earn my second place vote. For right now, the mc2301s have unquestionably destroyed the rest of the amps that I've had the pleasure to listen to. They are more neutral than my mc275s and won't make a crappy recording sound amazing but they will make a good recording sound spectacular.
McIntosh 2301s are without a doubt more engaging and holographic. I can hear the artist take a breath between each pause. The midrange is MASSIVE to the point that words that used to be mumbled in certain songs are now CLEAR and articulate. These amps put the artist in the middle of your living room. They are VASTLY superior to the mc601s I had to the point that they make the 601s sound anemic and compressed due to the fact that the 2301s throw a large soundstage. I began to dig up music from the 90s and 80s that I heard when I was a kid and I almost don't even recognize the songs because of how much detail that was uncovered by these amps 117db SN ratio. They are a mc275 but with a big turbocharger attached to it that makes them sound unreal. At this point, I am going to begin researching all preamplifiers from all manufacturers and hopefully find a superior preamp. I know these amps can give me more and although I am happy with them, I wonder if my preamp is a bottle neck.
With all that said, I have my top 4 for electrostatics:
1. Mc2301s (#1 by a huge margin)
2. Mc275s
3 pass Labs 250.8
4. Pass Labs 350.5 |
Hi,
unfortunately you won't get all those things when you are using a receiver as your preamp. Save your money and replace that thing with a better processor. I think the best processor out right now is the McIntosh mx160. Amazing machine but a big cost for sure. If you need something cheaper then look into a bryston sp3. Forget about buying amps when you have a weak source. |
I really REALLY like this 585. It sounds so detailed and smooth with zero fatigue. I haven’t even used it’s Dac because I’m impressed with just the amp and preamp section. Very holographic, detailed, enough power to love my Clxs and with amazing midrange.
It makes me wonder WHY the hell am I spending more money to purchase separates ?
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someone told me that at this level, it is a matter of flavor and nothing is bad. I would say that THIS IS the most accurate statement i have heard in a long time. For now, i am bringing the luxman d08u in a week or so and my plan is to compare its dac to my chord dave. |
Guys,
the massive change I’m hearing with my Clx panels have me just floored. I can’t begin to tell you how I’m feeling. I have never heard something anywhere near it. As good as the Cremonese were, these Clx panels certainly top it. They contain so much width, depth and just zero harshness. I’m not even done with my set up. I’m still using cheap speaker cables, power cords etc and yet I could easily live with this as is. Yes the Clx are just spectacular in every way. Far better than the Martin Logan renaissance. The only tning is that they need space to breathe. You need about 4 feet behind them. If you have a small room, then you can forget about these.
That said, I’m still playing with the 585 integrated and I’m impressed. Can’t find ONE SINGLE fault with it. Drives things excellent with great smoothness. Again, this is far better than the Hegel h360
i had. No comparison here.
Tomorrow i will be receiving the hegel h30
and Luxman 900u combo. I’m not sure I’ll connect things until next week. Again guys,
its surreal what I’m hearing with my speakers right now. I expect things to be elevated even further with the Luxman combo.
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