Need help with Kinergetics Subs - Newbie


Total newbie question here...

Denon 2805 receiver
Spica TC-50 mains
Kinergetics SW-200 subs
Jamo S3 surround

I have a pair of Kinergetics SW-200 subs that have a problem that I need help troubleshooting. If you're not familiar with these older subs, they are a left and right sub each with two 10" cone speakers. Since my Denon 2805 only has one sub pre-amp out, I split this signal and feed to the L/R channels on the Kinergetics amp.

The problem is when the bass gets to a moderate level, the right sub box (again with two 10" speakers in it) starts to make a loud jackhammering staticy type sound. One of those wrong sounds that makes you run to turn down the volume before your system blows up. Both of the speakers in the right box seem to break down at the same time, so I'm not sure if it the speaker cones / coils or something with the electronics in the box. I usually blow a fuse soon after, too.

I don't see any visible cone damage and the subs sound fine at lower volume levels.

The left speaker box will make the same sound but only at a much higher level. The right speaker box definitely has the problem long before the left does. Am I just pushing the subs too hard for home theatre? They seem to be made to be a very subtle sub.

Anyone familiar with Kinergetic Subs? Are they right for home theatre or am I just trying to do something they weren't made for? I always thought "a sub is a sub" and can be used for multiple applcations, but maybe these aren't cut out for HT.

Anyone have ideas of what the problem is?

Thanks for any ideas / help!

John
robotman
I have the same custom sand-filled stand with the SW-200 sitting below the TC-50's. They definitely blend like magic.

I'm very curious if a different amp would clean up the problem. The speakers handle some bassy stuff perfectly. Otherstuff they just fall apart. I can't tell what the difference is. Maybe some scenes are sending <20Hz which is causing the amp to fall apart?

John
Just a thought.. because your speakers/sub are from a previous "era", try connecting them like they were likely designed to be used: i.e. does the subwoofer amp have speaker-level inputs/outputs? If so, have you tried using them? If this sub/amp/crossover system was designed and sold pre-Dolby Digital/DTS, it may actually sound better if you feed the subwoofer amp a full-range speaker-level signal and let the Kinergetics amp/crossover do it's thing. I gather from other posts here that your system offers a high degree of adjustability in this regard to get a seamless blend between the Satellites (Spicas) and sub.

If you want to try this, you'll have to set your receiver's bass-management properly. Set it for front speakers "large" and subwoofer "no". Set your center channel and surrounds to "small" if you have them. Setup this way, all LFE will get routed to your subs via the front L-R speaker cables and your Spicas should be protected from low bass by the crossover in the Kinergetics amp.

Do not use the line-level output from your receiver's "subwoofer out". Run your front L-R speaker cables from your receiver to the Kinergetics' speaker-level input and then connect your Spicas to the subwoofer amps' speaker-level output. Of course, disregard this if the subwoofer amp lacks speaker-level connections, but I'd be suprised if it didn't as this system was apparently engineered for high-end two-channel music and most two channel pre-amps of that era would not likeley have included a line-level "sub-out" like a modern DD/DTS-era receiver/processor.

Let me know if your system sounds any better set up this way.

JZ
The Spica/Kinergetics were definitely made to run as "one speaker". The set-up you described would be the best for the speakers and I did have them set-up this way in my pre-HT days.

Unfortunately the Kinergetics amp does not have a speaker level out. It just has a built-in crossover which you can feed back to your receivers pre-amp in (which my receiver doesn't have) or another amp (which I also don't have).

Interesting that it seems like most HT receivers don't have a pre-amp in. It would be very beneficial for my system.

Also, even if I could set up my system differently, I think I would still have the sub breakdown problem once I reach a certain volume level. The problem is not blending the speakers, it is something to do with the amp (if not the speakers themselves).

I'm curious to see if a different full-range amp would run the Kinergetics better? Not sure what is the best way to demo one. I hate to spend a ton of money on something that may not even fix the prob. And I don't know the first thing about shopping for an amp.

Any suggestions besides the ATI 1502? The ATI is $650 and power rated the same (150x2). I probably don't need more power... just better power if rpw's ideas are correct. Maybe someone can help me locate a good online used amp?

Thanks for everyone's input again!

John