First it was magical goo to paint on connections. Now it’s a magical mat to place near or under my components. No explanations, not even an attempt at one, on how either of these things accomplish anything. It’s a secret.
Numerous posts by a handful of people gushing about great these products are and the wonderful results obtained. Over the top endorsements repeated over and over. It’s a paid for advertisement. $600 for a magical mat.
Yikes. Audiogon is getting goofier every day. Hard to take seriously anymore |
“Yea, I’ve never seen a product where you are discouraged to take a picture of it, let alone there is some taboo against cutting it open to see if its a plain old piece of magnetic backed foam rubber that the seller is claiming magic properties to or a scientific breakthrough worthy of merit“
You are purposefully distorting Tim’s response to a question, in order to stir up controversy. He said that a mat that is cut up will not be eligible for a refund under the 30 day return policy. Perfectly reasonable.
Obviously, I, or anyone else who purchases a product, am free to take pictures of it, cut it up, or do whatever else I want to with it.
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Geoff-The High Fidelity cables do exactly what you think of magnets added to cables, they increase the noise and distortion. The former proud owner of them complained that his system lacked smoothness. When I heard it, it sounded like garbage coming our of the AvantGarde Trios and 3 pairs of Basshorns. All the instruments were like in bass relief, outlined but lacking in body with disjointed frequency range (separate lows, highs, mids). After installing a more conventional (but an extremely elaborate and patented) set of speaker, A/C and IC cabling, his audio system sounded really enjoyable. |
I use a Walker Talisman to demagnetize my CDs and LPs every time I play them. The difference between a magnetized CD and a Talisman demagnetized CD is as different as using 6 E-mats when comparing a magnetized (several plays of a CD for instance) and a "Talismaned" demagnetized CD. The Talisman is just a big pair of magnets but works like a powered tape demagnetizer unit, but is non-powered, easy to hold and use and small item. I highly recommend it.
I also have an Acoustic Revive RD1 which does a so-so job and which I purchased prior to the Talisman.
Otherwise, the tiny group of magnets I use in inconspicuous locations use a special metal which interacts with it. I doubt that it actually magnetizes the surfaces but probably does the opposite to great effect. The proof is in hearing it. |
Yea, I’ve never seen a product where you are discouraged to take a picture of it, let alone there is some taboo against cutting it open to see if its a plain old piece of magnetic backed foam rubber that the seller is claiming magic properties to or a scientific breakthrough worthy of merit. |
It’s not how cheap you are. It’s what you know. 😀 For example, the induced magnetic field of large transformers is not (rpt not) good for the sound. Which is why wrapping transformers with low frequency high permeability alloy improves the sound by absorbing the magnetic field. Or for speaker magnets, high frequency high permeability alloy. By the same token it’s customary to DE-magnetize cables, CDs and LPs, not to magnetize them. Trying to use magnets to “manipulate” the sound is like shooting blanks in the dark. Magnets don’t somehow smooth the signal, reduce noise or distortion, or any such thing.
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I'm certainly not going to cut open an E-mat. However, I have tiny alnico magnets strategically placed in my system where they are away from E-mats and use a certain metal to make them work, without the metal, the magnets damage the sound.
It is also proprietary to the inventor so I can't divulge it either.
The worst use of magnets I've heard many times are High Fidelity cables. The more expensive, the more gigantic the magnets. They sound awful. My friend who had an $850,000 audio system in a $500,000 dedicated room just sold $100,000 worth of H.F. cables and replaced them with GroverHuffman cables for about $5,000. It wasn't the money, it was the sound quality. Like night and day.
Unless sbayne finds otherwise, the question about the E-mat having enhanced properties with the use of additional magnetism remains. Or does it worsen the sound? |
Thanks Geoff. That's what I was thinking. But no worries it will not go to waste. I'm planning a sign to warn all audio cheapskates.
Watch for me in your neighborhood in the near future.
LP |
Well, he is absolutely within his rights to hide the secrets of his product. When people talk about cutting the mat open and other questions I would discourage that sort of thing too. Who wouldn’t? Hel-loo! I had a skeptic take an Intelligent Chip (which wasn’t even my product!) to a metallurgist to try to determine the metals and other material used in its construction, not realizing the active ingredient (artificial atoms) was sandwiched between the two thin discs, out of view of the scanning electron microscope. 😛
Never smarten up a chump and never ever give a sucker an even break. |
grannyring,
It just seems to me that this subtopic has generated enough interest to be worthy of the spotlight of it’s own thread. |
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perfectpathtech@tommylion I would ignore his request. Of the many, many years of following Audiogon forums, this is the very first time that I've witnessed a manufacturer trying to discourage a member from helping the community to understand how to use their product. This attempt by @perfectpathtech is extremely troubling. What is he hiding? |
lpretiring
I would guess the level of intensity has something to do with effectiveness as well. I bet mine will stay in place at 100 mph!
See my previous post, which I just amended to address intensity. The reason eMats are more effective when stacked probably is not (rpt not) a function of magnet intensity. You said it yourself - strong magnets hurt the sound. Hel-loo! The trick is knowing WHAT TO MANIPULATE. And that whole subject is unfortunately one of those unmentionable subjects and beyond scope.
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You may. But let’s keep it here as I am sure we will end up combining the two etc.. Again, it’s all good! User experiences and ideas to use with the E-mats or without are what these forums are for. How E-mats work with other tweaks etc... All this is good. To limit it means it does become an ad, not a forum. |
Might I suggest that sbayne start another thread about his experiments with magnetic mats?
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We know the E-mat does not use magnetism for its magic. We were already told that. It is still interesting to try these low cost magnetic tweaks because we can 🙂 |
I would guess the level of intensity has something to do with effectiveness as well. I bet mine will stay in place at 100 mph!
LP |
On the other hand your friend and humble narrator has been using magnets of various types sizes and colors for nigh on twenty years. So, there’s that. It’s a question of knowing where they go and so forth. Also, they are not particularly powerful. So, there’s that.
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@geoffkait
You may very well be right. About a year ago I tried some little neo-something super strong round magnets. Experimented for an evening and in my system it was awful.
LP |
Yes, but my questions go further. Will magnetism enhance E-mats effectiveness? Do E-mat work on speakers? Heck, if kitchen mats work at all to enhance, why not use cheap 60 mil mats which are so much stronger than 20 or 30 mil mats? |
Make something cheap enough and ever the most die hard skeptic folds like a little girl. Even when they’re told magnetism is not the method of operation. It never fails. 😛 |
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Yikes??!? Kitchen mats, how did I miss that? I just bought a 10' roll 30 mil thick mat that is used primarily for putting signs on sides of cars, and it's been shipped in less than an hour. LOL!
But the good news, really cheap for real.
What do I have to lose now, will try it on my breaker panel for giggles.
LP |
I agree with grannyring that its another interesting aspect to be looked at. @sbayne please continue to post your experience and of course if you ever get an e-mat of either size let us know how it reacts to what you’ve already started. If anything I can send some that I will be getting for you to experiment with. I have been using some black discus' from Mad Scientist that are working really well that I want to see how the e-mat plays with. |
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Not you at all Frank. Tim actually. No reason for that post by him. The other magnet thing is just another interesting aspect of this thread. They can both live here as well as other ideas. I think the posts here have been positive and great. All good stuff. |
Steve ...
I tried leaning an E mat up against the crossovers on the Signature III’s with no change in the sound.
Grannyring...
The intention in my post wasn’t an attempt at negativity. Not at all. It was an attempt to get people to think beyond themselves.
Geoff ...
I know you weren't TRYING to make my point ... and that's the entire point.
Says volumes.
Frank |
Frank, I wasn’t making your point. Never mind.
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@sbayne
Please post here as you are welcomed by most everyone of us. Look forward to your kitchen mat results. Not sure why one or two posted such short and strangely negative posts? Anyway just ignore them 🙂 |
Sbayne-I was hoping for your experience(s) with using big kitchen magnets. Also, if they enhance E-Mats properties when stacked with them.
tommylion- I wonder how E-Mats work on speakers? I didn't think that would be an appropriate application. On my 5'6", 7 driver speakers, the drivers are located up to 5' down, the speaker terminals 5' down and the crossover about mid-way down.
How strong is the E-Mats affect on a speaker that size? Would six stacked E-Mats be more effective on a speaker? Would an E-Mat be effective covering speaker terminals?
These are valid questions which could help audiophiles in improving their sound at lower cost (sbayne) or higher cost (tommylion), or not worth pursuing (no change in sound). |
Sbayne ..
I don’t recall saying anything about ignoring your posts. Where do you see this?
Interesting that you would take my post so personally. Maybe there’s hope for our civil society after all. :>)
Frank |
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Geoff ...
Thanks for making my point.
Frank |
What’s ethics got to do with anything? 😬 |
@perfectpathtech and @oregonpapa - I'm going to stop posting on this thread. I think this is what you want by telling people to ignore my posts and by insinuating I'm unethical. Ironically, I think Perfect Path Tech's products do exactly what is claimed. |
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@tommylion I would ignore his request.
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@tommylion - Can you set-up a system page and download some pictures? I’d like to see your set-up. Pictures are worth a thousand words. Would give me an idea what size your speakers are and how far away the E-Mats are from the drivers, etc. Thanks. |
Last night's listening session was fantastic. As things settle in, the sound just continues to improve. Robert and I dug deeply into the record vault and came up with a real sleeper. I knew the record was good, but it NEVER sounded like this before! Definitely a demo LP for sure. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fantasy-3301-OJC-200-Dave-Brubeck-Brubeck-a-la-Mode-VG-VG/222625576056?hash...Instead of the usual Paul Desmond on alto sax, it features Bill Smith on clarinet. An amazing LP. Be sure to buy the stereo version. I don't know if there's a CD release ... If so, I haven't heard it and can't vouch for it. Highly recommended. Frank |
I am very happy so far with the results of placing mats on top of my speakers 😃 More transparency, clarity, air, reverb & decay, realism, life, energy, palpability and engagement with the music. |
I'm now back in town after being gone for 5 days and gave a listen with the four 8x11 magnetic mats on my music server. No doubt another improvement in sound! My 30 additional "mats" also arrived but there was a note in the box saying they could not cut them to size so they sent me a 30' x 2' roll! It actually worked-out well since I was able to cut them to the exact size needed. I now have 10 layers of 20mil magnetic mat on the inside of my breaker box and 10 layers under or over all my components (excluding the turntable for obvious reasons) including the power conditioners. I sat down for a brief listen and wow! I'm going to let them "cook" for a few days before reaching any conclusions.......... |
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tommylion and resolution 1
Thanks Pete |
68pete,
i second what tommylion says says about the breaker panel but I started with the first one on my CD player and was floored by the improvement.
If if you can swing for two that is what I would do.
Have fun,
rc |
If I could choose only one place to put a mat, it would be the power panel/breaker box, as this will benefit all components (as well as your TV and any other A/V devices plugged into the AC), rather than targeting just one specifically. |
Been following this thread, and it has some great people with lots of knowledge involved. So if your going for your first mat, where do you put it?
Breaker box?
under the amp?
under the disc player?
under the pre amp?
under power distribution?
Have not seen (read) a clear answer. All have some positive but not a sheer winner. I know each system is different an it could very some what. But those that have tried several mats where did it give you the biggest bump in performance?
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Tim has won both the Home Run Derby and All Star Game with Total Contact and Omega E Mats!!!!
Besides a genius, Tim is also a great guy.
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^^^
Thanks Bob and Steve ...
That’s the name of the game for me. As I discover these great tweaks, I love to share them with my friends who are fellow audiophiles as well.
Its just amazing to me how much information is left untouched on our LP’s and CD’s and not revealed to our ears. The tweaks, especially really good ones like the SR Blue fuses, SR HFT’s, the Total Contact, and now the Omega E Mats, can bring out the best in whatever equipment we may have at the present time. Even entry level systems can benefit tremendously from these four tweaks.
Steve is correct. I’ve spent an inordinate amount of time and effort to reduce micro vibrations throughout the system. There’s a lot more going on with my system that doesn’t meet the eye. Reducing micro vibrations and paying attention to room treatments has had a real payoff in the sound department. BUT ... the best so far has been the Omega E Mat. There’s been nothing like the combination of the TC and the Mats to really bring the system around to where it is today.
Tim ... You are a genius. :-)
Frank |
Let me second my agreement with Mr. Bob about Frank's system. However, he has radically good vibration isolation plates under all his equipment and apparently high end cabling. His CD player is 98% as good as my EAR Acute which is about $5-6,000 with his CD player slightly tighter and deeper in the bass. His speakers are highly resolving despite their age, especially with the tweaks. |
Let me chime in on this thread....
I have no vested interest, I am not a troll, but let me share my personal observations from listening to Frank's system evolve over the past two years.
I started going to Frank's place around 2 years ago, when he started installing the SR Black fuses, then the Blue fuses, then the contact paste, and now the eMats...
I have to share my independent observations in Frank's room; with each step, his sound has clearly improved from the previous version...Frank's system is relatively modest; old Legacy speakers, Audio Research 3, or 5 pre, and a AR 75 amp, $300 modded Pioneer elite CD player, and average cables and power. He has some additional room treatments, with speakers pulled out for near field listening.
The detail, resolution, and lowered floor noise is now unbelievably improved....on tracks that I am very familiar, his system now allows me to hear subtle shimmer and decay that is missing from my more expensive and supposedly more resolving rig( Venture speakers, dCS Vivaldi dac, network bridge, dedicated Room Nucleus + core, high end Transparent reference cables, Shunyata power conditioner, 3 dedicated lines, Veloce battery powered pre, dedicated NAS, with router on linear power supply, Sablon ethernet cables, etc). His sound stage stretches back deep to the wall, and wide, clarity, resolution in spades, and improved bass and dynamics. The mats have clearly brought his systems to achieving almost the ultimate extraction of digital bits possible. Everything that Frank has described, I've heard independently, He is not exaggerating one iota. I know folks have called him a shill, and over hyped a product, but he is only providing audiophiles, like me, an opportunity to enhance their sound experience with relatively modest cost tweaks.
I have placed 6 mats in my rig for only 48 hours now, one in breaker box, one under amp, preamp, DAC, Roon Nucleus and NB, and Directv player. With only 48 hours, my room has improved, lower floor noise, less grunge, deeper bass, and some of my missing shimmer on cymbals and horn and piano notes is now coming into my room. I am looking forward to completing the break in process. I don 't have full pasting on my power cords, and stopped at the SR black level fuses, not blue. I have paid for my tweaks directly, nothing free. I know there are doubters out there...I simply wish to share my experience from listening to Frank's room, and now my own.
Thanks, Frank....enjoy the music
Bob |
My unconditional return guarantee does not apply if the product is cut or altered. The smaller card should prevent one from cutting up the larger mat. Cutting will alter the performance big time.
First production run of the Alpha E Card is almost done!
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I understand the trepidation about cutting the mat into smaller pieces.
So I'm waiting for someone else to try it first. And who knows maybe once its cut open stuff may ooze out...
ozzy
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