Please Read and express your feelings and opinions....


I noticed  that lately or maybe for the last five yrs, there is so much arguments,name calling, attacking cables , speakers , components makers and more, more of disagreement with members, even Audio dealers are being attack here...Very few know how to apologize when they are wrong.What can we do as Audiogon members to improve our communication to each other? How to give the informations, recommendation to members who need it? This is without involving Audiogon, any opinion or ideas ,  For me this is fun and place to learn in audio...thank you all
jayctoy

kosst_amojan
Michael, I’m pretty sure I responded to that stupid statement of Geoff’s, as well as citing examples of how it’s synthesized. It seems to me we must have figured out how to measure those spacial attributes if we’re creating devices and techniques that simulate them. My recording/production engineer friend has all kinds of tricks up his sleeve for adding depth, height, and width to mixes.

>>>>Sorry, we don’t want that synthetic crapolla. We don’t want artificial soundstage and we don’t want your synthetic noise reduction and we don’t want your dynamic range compression. We know how to go about getting the real thing, which is buried in the recording, so we don’t need any recording/production engineer’s tricks, but thanks anyway. We don’t want added depth, height or width. We don’t want anything added. Have the decency to stay out of the high end.

We have sort of gotten off track from the original intent of the message, which I have already responded to.  No, I don't that anyone other than the manager of the site should have veto power and delete anyone's posts.  All that would happen as a result would be posters deleting contrary viewpoints.

Again, rude behavior should be addressed.  Differences of opinion, (and yes, most times, it comes down to opinions).  If it isn't provable by confirmed science technology and standards and isn't accepted scientifically, it is opinion.

Now before you all take my head off, pray indulge me  Any device, fuse, transistor, resistor, circuit, capacitor, tube,etc. that is placed in the signal path will affect the signal.  But there are technical reasons behind this.  I don't begrudge people for not getting engineering or technical degrees, but this really comes down to what is scientific fact and other's opinion. Either you know what you are talking about or you don't and it is opinion.

Take for example fuses. This is a long standing argument. But, if that fuse is in the signal path, then yes, it will have an impact.  Current, voltage, VA rating, impact the signal.  also, impedance is quite important.

To simply throw one's hands up and say it doesn't have an impact is irresponsible.  If the device is constructed such that under normal or extreme loads the voltage doesn't dip and the current carrying capability is handled by the device and the impedance does not change. Then no, it will not impact the signal. If, however, those do change, then it will impact the signal. This is engineering 101.

If a person tells me that changing the fuse made a noticeable difference in sound quality, I guarantee you there is a technical explanation.

But, there had better be a A/B comparison and the circumstances must be exactly the same to make such a claim.

Same with listening to pre-amps, speakers, amps, etc. Did you set and write down the volume level and make sure they were matched first? If you changed any other component during this evaluation, then is was not a fair A/B comparison.

Soundstage??? come on people.  First how was the recording done in the first place? On some digital recordings going straight to a mixing board there isn't a sound stage in the first place.  The engineer may put an artificial one in, but that is what it is. If, however, the engineer knew his/her stuff, the proper mike placement and use is paramount. Proper equipment, etc.  The only real way to know for sure is for the engineer to hear the play back and make that determination.  The rest of us weren't in the room and your playback equipment may have been designed to insert artificial characteristics into the sound.

The reasons why some things aren't scientifically tested or proven is quite simple.  They are not cost effective to do so.  Who is the audience?  Will I recover my costs if I come up with the scientific technique?  In the case of audio, the answer is NO.  Of course scientist and engineers can come up with the test and methodology.  There is simply no real reason for them to do so here.  If there was mass market, military, or large consumer implications, then they would be all over this.  This is a technical universe.  Of course it can be done.  There is at this time no real justifiable reason for anyone to take the time and great expense to do so, to simply satisfy a few high enders.

Autos are different.  the technology trickles down from extreme super cars to mass market cars.  GPS tracking was/is military based.  But, look at most car adds today.  It isn't the car most are selling, it is the new/latest and greatest electronic bells and whistles.  This won't fly for mass market audio (at least I don't think it will).  Most non-audiophiles listen to music as background music.  They couldn't care less about soundstage and dimensionality, etc.

Just my two cents worth.  However, I don't like rudeness in any form.  I agree that must be called out and stopped.  We can disagree and have rational discussions, but to call names, and add insults, well.  That's another story.

enjoy please

Well, Geoff, you and Mikey are out there just spinning your fictions about how characteristics of perception can't be measured and I just proved you're both just making it up. 

And by the way, Mike, you're long winded agreement with Geoff really takes your authority and respect level WAY down. 
kosst_amojan"Well, Geoff, you and Mikey are out there just spinning your fictions about how characteristics of perception can't be measured and I just proved you're both just making it up."

Actually you have not proven anything you are just like all the others here to want to portray yourselves as serious disciplined intellectual scientists when in fact you are afraid to conduct your own tests and afraid of anyone who's experience exceeds yours you offer no evidence you just keep repeating the mantra that it all sounds the same and if it doesn't your being fooled or biased or the old emperors clothes fairy tail.