SET the best?


Is SET amplification where we should all end up? I keep reading posts where people tell of their journeys from plenty power to micro power, and how amazing SET amplification is 45 set 211 set 845 set otl, and usually, ....with the right speaker. I have yet to read of anyone who has gone the other direction from SET, to High watt beast class A amps or others.
If your speakers can be driven by minimal wattage, is this the most realistic, natural sound we can achieve? versus say, 86db sensitive speakers and a 1000w amp?
Is the end result solely based on speaker pairing? circuit? tubes?

I am in the process of changing my direction in my search for realistic sound, just because, and wondering if this really is the best direction to be going.
From what I have been reading I think it may be.

What do we get with SET? What do we give up?

What's you favorite color?
hanaleimike
Breuninger, it was really cool to read your thoughts on this subject. I know you come from a place of experience and I've slowly been coming around to share your opinion.

Hearing you say that stuff makes me feel like less of a traitor for coming back to push-pull and solid-state amps on speakers that dip below 6 ohms and are less than 88db sensitive. Haha.
Atmasphere you said {This power limitation is one reason why I don't use SETs. The bigger you make them, the less bandwidth and detail} Please explain if you would for this doesnt seem to make sence, maybe its just wordered wrong. Maybe Im not getting your point. But power rating in SET doesnt have anything at all to do with bandwidth its the SETs design. Mostly the transformers used. I have owned SETs with limited bandwidth but if of proper build this isnt a universal SET problem. Now if you dont have power your loudspeaker requires thats a system matching error and not the fault of the SET amp but of owners system choice.
Johnk, the post was worded right. The upper power limits of SETs in a way are more of a function of the output transformer that it is the tube! The bigger you make the transformer, IOW to handle more power, the less bandwidth it will have. If you try to optimize it for bass, the highs will be rolled off and vice versa.

Since many high efficiency speakers (99db+) have limited bass response, SET builders usually sacrifice the bass performance in favor of the highs, since speakers that go below 40 Hz in the high efficiency world are few and far between.

IME experience the bigger SETs also have less detail. This is based on my personal listening experiences, but you will notice that one of the revered 'king' tubes in the SET world is the type 45, which usually makes less than one watt at full power. IOW, the smaller you make them, the better they sound, which is a common theme with amps in general (although OTLs seem to be one of the few exceptions), both SET and P-P.

I've also noticed that it is exceedingly rare to compare like technologies in the SET world. People often compare say a 300b SET against a P-P EL-34 amp (with the results in favor of the SET), but how often is a 300b or other SET compared to a P-P DHT class A amp of the same power rating? IOW to be scientific, this is where one would start if looking for real answers.
I went the other way - from a Cary CAD-805AE SET to the CAD-211AE push-pull amps. The reason for the switch was because the SET was underpowered for my new speakers. With the old speakers (ProAc D38's) the SET sounded magnificent with certain types of music - vocals, lieder, violin solos, string quartets. But the SET's could sound muddled when given something a bit more full range, like heavy orchestral. The symptoms were poor seperation of any instrument from the midbass down.

The CAD-211AE is an improvement in almost every aspect, mostly with dynamics, midrange weight, and almost unstoppable drive. But the top end is nowhere near as good as the SET. I was bi-amping for a while (see my sig) before I was forced to return the SET to pay the bills! If I could afford it, I would buy another pair of CAD-805's and bi-amp again.
My experience with SET was after several years of experimentation with SS and PP amps matched with a number of speakers. Most recently a few more systems have made their way through, and while some were quite good, I am always in a hurry to get my 300B SET/Altec 604 back on for the ease and sense of 'life' it conveys.

I have been very happy with my present main system for the last three years. The lower freq are augmented by two powered subs that have been set on a seperate volume and balance control to allow ease of integration with the mains. Further the two subs have varying crossover points to fill in any gaps. Not complicated in practice, but it took me a while to get it to this level.

Along with the well considered responses above. I'd like to add that the realism from this current system is quite stunning at times. Tho I'll be the first to admit the speakers could have better resolution, amongst other things... The whole effect as a whole is wonderful.

Give it a try and let us know how it goes...

Cheers,

RW