Should I upgrade DAC, speaker cables, ICs, or PCs?


I'm asking for your help in making up my mind of where to go next. I've asked this in the past and upgraded speakers first, later the amp, and lately preamp, and while the suggestions are never unanimous (nor should they be expected to be) they have been VERY helpful and I've been very happy with my upgrades.

Here's my current system:
- Rotel RCD1072 preamp
- Lamm LL2 pre
- McIntosh MC275 IV amp
- B&W 804S speakers
- dedicated power lines, and hospital grade outlets
- stock power cords throughout
- Nordost IC, the cheapest flatline ones (maybe Black Nights? not sold anymore)
- heavy gauge magnet wire for bi-wired speaker cables, an attemp to replicate Anti Cables
- room treatments: 2 16" dia DIY tube traps plus some panels.

Room treatment has brought great improvements and I'm still working on it with significant time spent there.

The weak ares to me are PCs, ICs, speaker cables and CD player, yet I don't have a budget to upgrade all of them in the near future. Maybe I can spend $1500, and used stuff is fine.

I know I'll be keeping the speakers and amp and pre for a good while, so upgrading speaker cables and pre to amp IC would be safe moves. On the other hand, if something is lost from the signal upstream, then it cannot be recovered, making the case for starting upstream...

I'm looking for opinions from more experienced "upgraders" who have gone through more iterations and have a better handle on how big an impact one or another upgrade MIGHT have. What would be the best next move, in your opinion?

Thank you!!
lewinskih01
I've owned all three of those DAC's, and many more, and I don't agree that they would be a bad match. Everyone is always trying to get the best sound from their system and that means balance.

My system tends to bright, so I didn't like the sound of the Benchmark in my system at all, or the Bel Canto after a while. Both were excellent DAC's but too bright for the rest of my gear. In other, warmer biased systems I have heard them, at stores and audio shows, they have been absolutely stellar.

I loved the Havana on the other hand. It was warm, and with the right tube in it, silky smooth and a great value. But it didn't have the last word in detail, so I kept searching. I eventually bought a Bryston BDA-1, which to me have been tremendous. Hard to find used, and a bit out of your current range, but it really has a complete warm yet extended, and detailed sound to me. I love it. I had a Berkeley Alpha DAC that may have been a bit better, but it was more than twice the $$, so I got the Bryston and no complaints.

I guess from looking at your gear, it has a very nice, powerful and warm tint to it. A Bel Canto, or Benchmark could match really well with that set up. The Havana might sound too syrupy in that signal path. But that's just my guess, since I haven't heard your set up. But I love all the gear.

I due use the oversampling on the Bryston, it just sounds better. Also, as far as DAC's go, the newer chipsets, jitter control, and power supply advancments are the reasons I don't think NOS DAC's are in the same league as current designs. It's literally like comparing a first Generation Mac computer with a current iMac and saying the original is better.
What NOS DACs are you comparing these DACs to? Because it's not entirely fair to compare the Berkeley to a $300 NOS DAC.

The Z and the Mojo Audio DACs are nicer than the Berkeley IMO. But the Berkeley is no slouch by any means. The Mojo Audio DAC is currently a NOS DAC. But Ben is doing tests on the Sabre 24/96 DAC chip that will allow you to natively handle files up to 24/196 without SRC. The Mojo Audio DAC sounds as good as it does because it has a beefy power supply... well 5 power supplies, one for each output, one for the DAC chip, one for the crystal oscillator/DSIX, and one for the digital input. Audio is fairly simple, it's us dorky audiophiles that make it complicated.

So I agree with you that the latest technology OS DACs are actually quite good. The Prism's oversampling and SRC is stellar. But the Prism Orpheus is a different animal altogether. I wouldn't go as far as to say that all modern OS DACs are better than NOS DACs. Your evaluation of the Benchmark, BC, and Havana are quite accurate. I just encourage people not to use components as tone controls. If you remove the bandaids from your system you will be much better off and have much better music.

Rather than getting a warm DAC to cover a bright amp, remove the bright amp instead. Brightness is a boost caused by distortion in the 2-4khz domain. It is often caused by mechanical vibration, cheap capacitors, or a weak power supply.

With live music there is no such thing as warm or bright. Music is just music. If you stop thinking in terms of "what will fix the brightness in my system" and begin thinking "how can I make my system more accurate" you will get much larger gains in enjoyment from your system. If you go listen to live unamplified music it will give you a benchmark to start from. Music is warm, it is bright, it is bold, it is intense and it is subtle... it is all of these things. Music is Music is Music is Music. It doesn't matter if it's tubes or solid state. If you do it accurately all components will sound the same. Listen for proper flow, listen for time, tune, and tone. Coherency and inner detail. EMOTIONAL CONTENT. Ok... sorry for the rant, gents!
I've never heard of Mojo Audio, or heard their DAC. Looking at their website, it looks like a startup, and I wish your friend luck.

I have heard, many, many DAC's over the years, and those that are new, including the one's mentioned above, and I would add the new PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC, are about as state of the art as it gets, unless you move into the 5 digit $$ range. Then my ears hear an incremental improvement that I don't find worth the cost.

Also, all equipment has a warm/bright bias especially when used together. That's just a fact, especially if listening to digital music, which is extremely bright compared to analog.

So, if you've got $1500 to spend, to go back to the original question, I would suggest one of the newer DAC's. Possibly a Bel Canto or Benchmark, or if you want to spend just a bit more I suggest the Bryston BDA-1 which has stellar reviews not only from publications buy from it's owners as well.
I don't think all equipment has a warm or bright bias when it is made neutral. Brightness or warmth are just distortions -- either attractive or otherwise.

I also disagree that digital is bright compared to analog. The better that analog gets the closer it gets to digital. The better that digital gets the closer it gets to analog. While entry level vinyl will sound considerably better than entry-level digital, to say that digital is bright compared to analog is just not true. I used to listen to a Walker Turntable and a DiVinci turntable, both stellar pieces of analog gear. But my digital has surpassed the performance of both of those turntables.

Ultimately it doesn't matter how you get there (vinyl, digital, tubes, solid state). Music is just music. If done correctly in any of these areas you will have accurate music that isn't bright or rolled off. It's non-fatiguing and has all the emotional content that goes along with it.

Fun FACT: Almost ALL modern vinyl recordings are just 24bit DIGITAL masters. I worked in recording for 4 years and now in the film industry.

It is also true that redbook CDs don't have any information above 15khz, and most have no information above 10khz. 95% of harmonic information is contained below 5khz.
LOL, it's classic reading your system notes, I now understand more your motivation with such postings. You really don't mean any of it, you are just trying to offend.
It's not offensive, it's really funny, you are like the Andy Kaufman of Audiogon.

LOL, classic, excellent job.