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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
643 posts
 

Hi Glupson

"Thanks for that short description about wood. It does seem like a tedious work with lots of trial and error. I am sure with some experience the error part gets smaller, but still. To get to that experience, lots of wood must have gone to dumpster or wherever else."

You know how people say "they do" something? Well there’s a big difference between making a flash attempt and living inside of an art, any art. From the other side of the fence (past plug & play) there is so much potential for playing our systems the average hobbyist has no idea until they start there own Tuning journey. I don't just preach it, I live it.

I do two things in this hobby. One is try to find that perfect sound for everyone through creating and methodizing it. The other is do my best to share that there is more if someone wants it.

These forums are very weird for me, as you have gathered. It’s weird because I am somewhere between a full service Acoustical, Mechanical and Electrical inventor and an extreme listener myself. I don’t like the way the hobby is marketed, I believe and encourage DIY as much as I do push my own designing, I believe in the whole and not just a small part and I enjoy watching people move from "Fixed" to "Variable". I don’t just say "everything affects everything else" I have done it every day of my life, literally. LOL do you know what my work is? Music. Done you know what my hobby is? Music. Do you know what I do with my spare time? Music. Do I have a life outside of music? Nope!

I also believe everyone here is the master of their own system and they can start and stop anywhere they want, but someone has to get their hands in the saw dust, or find the right pitch on the metal cnc speed. Someone has to listen to every inch of every room and come up with a way to voice that room. Someone has to take apart those components to see how they tick, and then build them back up mechanically efficient and variable. Someone has to know this audio thing inside and out. And most important, someone has to build and create a method of tuning that allows us to play every recording any way we want.

Glupson, you criticize me for my writing. Maybe your right maybe I’m a terrible communicator. Others get hung up on whatever they do, nothing I can do about that, it’s the nature of public forums. I’m not here to join a club or change who I am or hide behind a username or keyboard. I’m simply here to turn people on to Tuning.

I hope this thread never goes away and I also hope readers can be encourage to take that next step, cause it’s out there waiting for them. I hope someday we get past the talking and share the walking. We’ve covered 33 pages of personalities, but walking doesn’t have to be walking in a continuum circle. Walking in this hobby could actually turn out to be walking forward, not in a circle, not backward and not sidetracks. That’s the only reason you see Tunees stopping by but not staying.

Maybe someday this thread will step up to the plate, who knows.

Michael Green

glupson
1,794 posts
 

Michael Green,


I think I do get the sense of where you stand in all of this, but do not forget one detail and I am not mentioning it in any bad way. Everyone has to eat and pay electricity, etc. so it is fine.


If you get paid for something, it is not a hobby. It is a job you are lucky to enjoy.


In a sense, it does not give you any free time, but it is still a job. Kind of, working after hours thinking you are having fun while you are actually perfecting what you do for money.

geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
glubson just does one thing. And he does it fairly well. And that’s troll. It’s called glubson’s, Gee whiz, what about this, what about that? routine. It has served him well. He will string you along until the cows come home. 🐄 🐄 🐄
inna
5,245 posts
 
Michael, what are your preferences in music ? I suspect that you listen to a wide variety of different kinds but still .
And another question is about source components. Do you use Studer, Ampex, something else with master tape dubs, Simon Yorke, Walker, Technics etc. turntable ?  I mean your reference not whatever else you might have to listen to for your clients.
If someone uses inferior source one can tune until hell freezes over - nothing good will really come out of this, though there might be improvements.
kosst_amojan
2,095 posts
 
MG, 
Nelson Pass seemed to think I did a really good job on it and complimented me on being brave enough to build something like that on my first attempt. Everybody that's heard the thing wants something that sounds that good because it really is a very good sounding amp. My efforts in tweaking it to sound it's best have included splitting the mica insulators down to .0007" for the best thermal transfer between the heatsinks and the MOSFETs, trying different input signal wires, trying different ground routing, working on getting the bias higher, and adjusting it's distortion character. I've put a lot of time and listening into getting that thing sounding just right. The signal goes through 2 JFETs, 2 MOSFETs, and 3 resistors before it gets to the output posts. If the theory is that simple circuits produce better sound, you don't get much simpler than that. 
The last time I bought a multi-outlet extension cord at Walmart the thing had a gigantic warning label zip-tied to the thing. Even those cheap 6 foot, 3 outlet things often have fuses I don't think I have a single power strip that isn't fused or breakered. That strikes me as responsible engineering. 
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