This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?
I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?
You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?
I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?
I appreciate your comment, however while writing this my focus was on the second half of the sentence
"but it is important to on lookers'
The on lookers are who have contacted me privately and who deserve an audio forum of integrity, truthfulness and free of trolls and fakers. The on lookers are also who inspired me to write the OP. The fact is Mitch, no matter how I wrote this thread's OP the trolls were going to come up to do what they do, tearing down the very fiber of this great hobby.
The OP has been sliced and diced to death and I believe brings out the true intent of the ones posting on this thread. That's what the OP was meant to do, and what it has done successfully.
@michaelgreenaudio The OP can be seen at the top of our screens every time we open this thread. Is reposting it a form of "walking" or maybe a subliminal message to help motivate all the talkers-not-walkers? A word to the wise, if you ever start another thread don't begin with,
Well there certainly are a lot of flagged posts, not only on this thread but many others on the forum. I wish I could take credit for being the inappropriate post police, but I wouldn't have time to do what I do.
Saying that, I strongly believe that angry trolls should be banned from audio sites, period. Here is the OP again.
This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?
I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?
You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?
I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?
I don't think it can be more clear than this. Plus on this thread the trolls have flagged themselves, and that's good news because the mods don't have far to look :)
As for the rest of us, there's the holiday weekend to enjoy! Great music great friends and of course great food.
C'mon, Mikey... You didn't know what an F5 was. Your reply was as daft is it could get. I'd never heard of you before this post. I came it this with the same open mind I approach anything with. I've learned exactly nothing from. I'm glad you think the mods are great. I'm pretty sure they spoke to you about punitively flagging my posts. That didn't go unnoticed by the crowd here either. I'm also pretty sure you're the biggest laughing stock on this thread. You're one of those guys who hasn't actually done anything. You don't know enough to do anything. You're hung up on your gimmicks because doing actual design work is outside your scope of ability. It's obvious. Inna is up there stroking your ego like you're some kind of audio vanguard of the new age, explaining you away in god-like flattering terms, and it's almost as hilarious as your ego. "
You don't understand. Children have no access to expensive high level components, all they can have are some parts around house to build something by themselves for themselves. That's what Michael tries to do - to teach children how to do it and how to get the most out of it. Disregard the adult world, to hell with it. I just had to write again because of those micro-brains having nothing to offer but primitive harassment." What does this even mean??? Technical questions are "primitive harassment" to the Great and Mighty Michael Green? I must have missed the DIY instructional guides here and on his website. It just looks like he's selling a lot of snake oil. Inna, have YOU even bothered to Google this guy? Can YOU find even ONE recording he's credited on? I can't. I can find more on my high school buddy down the street who built a recording studio and produced Billboard charting work than I can this supposed legend of audio engineering. I've learned more in 10 minutes talking to that guy than 35 pages of Mike's nonsensical ramblings.
So go ahead, Mikey, flag away... I'll have this copied to paste and post again. We all know when my posts disappear it you flagging them.
Jeff or Geoff you always derail a thread trying to be funny and whimsical which you are not. Trying to read a thread with you splattering words taking away from the topic is like slowly walking through glue to get to tbe really important things members contribute. Does anyone else feel this way?
I know you seem to be well respected here especially with over 11K posts to your name. It seems to me and I am only speaking of myself that most of your comments are quite snarky (when I say snarky I am being polite). From your posts, even if I was interested in whatever it is you sell, I would not buy anything from you, even if it was free. It always seem if someone doesn't agree with you, you call them names, etc. Again, I am speaking for merely myself. I wonder what names you will now call me, lol.
I know I get annoyed from time to time and say things without thinking (and get called out on it), none of us are perfect, especially me, but can't you be a bit nicer or is it not in your blood to do so? Frankly, I am surprised everyone seems to put up with it. Ok, so now everyone can tar and feather me for speaking my mind.
I got it. You prefer not to answer. It will not change anything important, but remember that you did not answer.
As a little note on a side, I do not lie and I did ask the question before. It might have not been on "Talk but not walk" thread, but I did ask. Lack of evidence does not mean that certain event did not occur. It may merely mean that investigation has been flawed.
I see no evidence you ever asked the question so I surmise you’re lying about it.
But to answer your question, I actually prefer not (rpt) to say which Panasonic model I’m using at present, now that you bring it up. I use maybe five different players in the course of a year, of different brands and models. I trust that answers your question.
I see no evidence you ever asked the question, glubson. Besides, I already answered a similar question from uberwaltz some months back. Yes, I know, pumpkin, what about this? What about that?
I think even those are not the answers. He does continue talking same few things, but actually not as an answer. They are statements frequently unrelated to anything asked.
geoffkait,
I will repeat my question. What model is your Panasonic portable CD player.
glupson, sorry, but in this case you are partially incorrect. Geoff does always answers questions, but the answers are always the same. Pop quiz, what are Geoff's answers?
Let me help, wire directionality, magic markers on the edges of CD's, cryogenics, and vibration control. There may be one or two others I am missing.
Do not get too upset. My questions are, in general, not addressed to you. So far, you have shown that you do not answer questions.
>>>>I don’t get upset. I get even. I don’t answer questions? Give me an example. That would so unlike me. Perhaps you are confused, pumpkin. Ordinarily if someone asks me what time it is I’ll explain how to make a clock. Have a nice day. Do not get too upset. I know it’s your nature.🌷🌷🌷
Nope, didn't change speakers. The speakers I had at the time were rated for 90dB at 2.83V and seemed well-suited to both amps. The small (and pretty well-known) class D amps were rated at 400 wpc into 8 ohms.
That's a good point that sometimes I assume people already know about me, so I'm glad you brought that up, thanks. Counting up the amplifiers that I own right now and have here with me is 22 amps. If you count the audio closet I have access to there are around 200 amplifiers.
I'm definitely not shy for equipment.
It's funny that kosst the other day was trying to make comments about Class A amplifiers when I was not only a dealer for Nelson, toured with his amps on the trade show road, but have also tuned up maybe 30 of his amps in systems. I've probably owned 20 or so Class A amps myself, but it's more interesting to watch some of these guys ramble on not aware there are audiogon readers who know me rolling their eyes at them.LOL
The Agon Mods have been great, the private emails from members have been great, the folks ordering have been wonderful, it's been fun talking to you and others, so I'm a happy camper. And the fact that the negative folks plan backfired is a hoot. I even took off most of the day today to spend time with Audiogon members. pretty cool
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