If you buy grey market are you stuck with going to a 3rd party like Soundsmith to get a re-tip?
The nightmare of the cartridge buyer...
I recently completed a several year quest to acquire a new cartridge. This quest was basically a major PITA and a nightmare!
Why? Well let’s take a look at what will be in store for all cartridge buyers’ in the US...and possibly other countries as well..IF they are seeking a top flite cartridge , like I was.
Firstly, and here’s where a big part of the problem lies: You will typically be unable to audition any cartridge under consideration...certainly not in your own home and more often than not, at your dealers either.
Then we have the fact that these products are closely monitored for who and whom can act as a dealer...which is then severally restricted by territory and distribution. We then add that the pricing is very well controlled...CAN WE SAY PRICE FIXING...which in most states is an illegal practice...but seems to be the rule here.
Let’s begin with my story...and then I am hoping that members will chime in here with their thoughts and probably also their own ’horror stories’....
About three years ago, I decided to acquire a cartridge that would replace my aging but still ok Benz Ruby 2...
I wanted a cartridge that would surpass that Benz in most areas...and one that would be priced at about $3-$5K. A lot of money to be spending on this piece of gear...or so I believed.
At the time, I was considering the following models....Benz LPS MR, Koetsu Urushi and Rosewood Platinum and the Lyra Kleos, Delos, a EMT, the Kiseki Purpleheart, Air Tight ( entry level model at the time..cannot remember what it was called) an Ortofon A90--and a Transfiguration Proteus--lastly one of the ZYX models. After some research, i discovered that the Ortofon’s, the Zyx’s and the Transfigurations wouldn’t work with my set up --due to too low an output by the respective cartridges for my all tube phono stage. So this left the Kiseki, the Koetsu’s, the Lyra’s and the Benz’s...and possibly the Air Tight model.
Circumstances changed and my cartridge buying escapade was put on hold...until a few months back. In the few years since my last foray, I find out that Benz have basically gone out of business ( again!!) and so has Transfiguration. Meanwhile, the Van Den Hul line has come into the US again...this time with a new distributor.
The Zyx line has totally been updated and the Lyra line is now more available than before...at least in theory. The Koetsu are now handled by Music Direct...who have essentially doubled the pricing across the board! Oh, i forgot, the Lyra line has increased by about 25% across the board ( i don’t think inflation can account for this!!)
So where to start auditioning --the answer...nowhere!
Instead I am supposed to rely on various dealers enthusiastic recommendation for these products...except for the fact that one dealer tells me that Koetsu’s are the best thing since mothers milk- and the other tells me that Koetsu’s are horrible with all the faults under the sun...( at least the ones that are in my budget..see above!) Can I hear any of these for myself...either in my system, or at the respective dealers...heck NO! ( and don’t think this type of scenario/ behavior isn’t consistent for other brands as well!--irrespective of whether the dealer(s) carries said brand or not!).
Here I am left with the choice of dropping several thousand dollars on a product that a) has no ability to be heard in my own system..therefore having no clue as to the results that I will get, b) has absolutely no return policy c) can be easily damaged by myself or others in the case of incorrect mounting to the tonearm...and lastly...and this is the one that really annoys me the most: I must shop for these products at a very limited amount of vendors who all are naysaying their competitors and acting extremely unprofessionally in the process. ( Do i really have to talk to the prospective rep for the line in order to determine the compatibility of the cartridge under question with my arm, the reasoning behind the asked price, where the dealer is that should be selling me the piece in question ( so as not to cross territorial lines) and on and on!!)
Then we have this little bonbon...The damn Japanese sourced cartridge(s) is available on several Japanese web sites at a price that is usually 50 -60% of the retail price here in the USA!! And that price in Japan is still at FULL RETAIL! ( Yes, I know it cost a ton of money to ship these things from Japan to here ( since they weigh a ton), LOL).
Where does this leave the US consumer in regards to the acquisition of a top flite cartridge...IMO the answer is between a hard place and a rock..You either pay through the nose and get totally ripped off by the likes of Music Direct and the various small independent reps in the US for these cartridges, or you takes your choice and risk buying from a grey market vendor abroad...but at a fraction of the price! BTW, mysteriously most of the top flite Benz cartridges continue to be very available from a vendor in China who seems to have cornered the market?? What’s up with this??
I can go on and about this journey, as I have just began to scratch the top of the heap in this story, but let’s hear from you guys as to your experiences and thoughts.... Was your top flite cartridge acquisition an equal nightmare, or was it something else?
Why? Well let’s take a look at what will be in store for all cartridge buyers’ in the US...and possibly other countries as well..IF they are seeking a top flite cartridge , like I was.
Firstly, and here’s where a big part of the problem lies: You will typically be unable to audition any cartridge under consideration...certainly not in your own home and more often than not, at your dealers either.
Then we have the fact that these products are closely monitored for who and whom can act as a dealer...which is then severally restricted by territory and distribution. We then add that the pricing is very well controlled...CAN WE SAY PRICE FIXING...which in most states is an illegal practice...but seems to be the rule here.
Let’s begin with my story...and then I am hoping that members will chime in here with their thoughts and probably also their own ’horror stories’....
About three years ago, I decided to acquire a cartridge that would replace my aging but still ok Benz Ruby 2...
I wanted a cartridge that would surpass that Benz in most areas...and one that would be priced at about $3-$5K. A lot of money to be spending on this piece of gear...or so I believed.
At the time, I was considering the following models....Benz LPS MR, Koetsu Urushi and Rosewood Platinum and the Lyra Kleos, Delos, a EMT, the Kiseki Purpleheart, Air Tight ( entry level model at the time..cannot remember what it was called) an Ortofon A90--and a Transfiguration Proteus--lastly one of the ZYX models. After some research, i discovered that the Ortofon’s, the Zyx’s and the Transfigurations wouldn’t work with my set up --due to too low an output by the respective cartridges for my all tube phono stage. So this left the Kiseki, the Koetsu’s, the Lyra’s and the Benz’s...and possibly the Air Tight model.
Circumstances changed and my cartridge buying escapade was put on hold...until a few months back. In the few years since my last foray, I find out that Benz have basically gone out of business ( again!!) and so has Transfiguration. Meanwhile, the Van Den Hul line has come into the US again...this time with a new distributor.
The Zyx line has totally been updated and the Lyra line is now more available than before...at least in theory. The Koetsu are now handled by Music Direct...who have essentially doubled the pricing across the board! Oh, i forgot, the Lyra line has increased by about 25% across the board ( i don’t think inflation can account for this!!)
So where to start auditioning --the answer...nowhere!
Instead I am supposed to rely on various dealers enthusiastic recommendation for these products...except for the fact that one dealer tells me that Koetsu’s are the best thing since mothers milk- and the other tells me that Koetsu’s are horrible with all the faults under the sun...( at least the ones that are in my budget..see above!) Can I hear any of these for myself...either in my system, or at the respective dealers...heck NO! ( and don’t think this type of scenario/ behavior isn’t consistent for other brands as well!--irrespective of whether the dealer(s) carries said brand or not!).
Here I am left with the choice of dropping several thousand dollars on a product that a) has no ability to be heard in my own system..therefore having no clue as to the results that I will get, b) has absolutely no return policy c) can be easily damaged by myself or others in the case of incorrect mounting to the tonearm...and lastly...and this is the one that really annoys me the most: I must shop for these products at a very limited amount of vendors who all are naysaying their competitors and acting extremely unprofessionally in the process. ( Do i really have to talk to the prospective rep for the line in order to determine the compatibility of the cartridge under question with my arm, the reasoning behind the asked price, where the dealer is that should be selling me the piece in question ( so as not to cross territorial lines) and on and on!!)
Then we have this little bonbon...The damn Japanese sourced cartridge(s) is available on several Japanese web sites at a price that is usually 50 -60% of the retail price here in the USA!! And that price in Japan is still at FULL RETAIL! ( Yes, I know it cost a ton of money to ship these things from Japan to here ( since they weigh a ton), LOL).
Where does this leave the US consumer in regards to the acquisition of a top flite cartridge...IMO the answer is between a hard place and a rock..You either pay through the nose and get totally ripped off by the likes of Music Direct and the various small independent reps in the US for these cartridges, or you takes your choice and risk buying from a grey market vendor abroad...but at a fraction of the price! BTW, mysteriously most of the top flite Benz cartridges continue to be very available from a vendor in China who seems to have cornered the market?? What’s up with this??
I can go on and about this journey, as I have just began to scratch the top of the heap in this story, but let’s hear from you guys as to your experiences and thoughts.... Was your top flite cartridge acquisition an equal nightmare, or was it something else?
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- 319 posts total
Chakster: I am quite aware of everything you stated in your last post with the exception of the unique mounting of the stylus on your Zyx. Unlike you, I’d be quite content to have an aftermarket retipper do the catridge at a significant discount to replacement price from Zyx on trade. It would no longer be a Zyx but if it sounded good, I could care less. And there are many stories out there from those who have had very expensive cartridges retipped by Soundsmith, Andy Kim or other aftermarket rebuilders who have been very happy with them. I suppose I have to hang my head in shame and live with the fact that my Accuphase AC2 is really no longer an AC2. It is still a Nakatsuka design (like your Zyx) but now sports a Namiki boron cantilever and microridge stylus (I believe most of the Zyx cartridges sport Namiki manufactured cantilever and styli as well) instead of its original sapphire cantilever. But it sounds very nice and for the $625 U.S. (in total) I have invested in it I’m quite happy. I’d probably be quite content to do the same kind of thing to your Zyx if I could acquire it at the right price but I’d have to get it cheap LOL. In the end, I doubt you are really out a lot of money based on Juki’s typical discounts on cartridges like that based on what it is worth on a trade in back to Zyx. And you could always recover a few hundred dollars selling it after 1500-2000 hours to someone like me who doesn’t care that it really won’t be a Zyx anymore following an aftermarket retip. ;) |
@hdm i see you're not an expert in ZYX and this is why you don't care, but you have to see the original cantilever of my ex ZYX Airy III and the way the nude stylus is mounter on it. Tell me if you ever seen any other cantilever like that. The whole diamong goes throught the tiny hole in the hollow pipe cantilever. Also cartridge body is sealed, so to exchange the cantilever someone has to broke the cartridge body. I know all OEM cartridges designed by Nakatsuka-San, but his own ZYX is far better than all of them. i totally understand experiments with $500 Monster Cable MC cartridges, but people buyin $3000 or $5000 ZYX not just to play with it for 2000hrs and send it to after-market retippers, but normally to upgrade it to the next ZYX model officially via distributor. If you think that selling a used ZYX cartridge (or any expensive $3k modern MC cartridge) is easy without big loss, then i think you're wrong. Those carts can sit on ebay forever, especially refurbished ones with completely different cantilevers and broken plastic body. To make it short: People who're willing to pay premium price for ZYX would love to have support from the distributors, only in this case they could live with this cartridge and upgrade it by sending the old one (with valid serial number) back to the distributor, paying the differens on top to have the next model. We're talking about $5000+ cartridges here. I must say that next model after Airy III was 4D and then Premium 4-D (this one was so much better in my system after Airy III). Would i send Zyx Premium 4-D to SoundSmith (i think he's the best) or any other ? No way! It make no sense to buy premium Zyx cartridges to send them for re-tip or rebuild to third-party vendors. I'm sure no one can make a ZYX cartridge better than Nakatsuka-San himself. It's better to buy another fully original cartridge, maybe from a different brand for more affordable price (this is what i did). P.S. For the same reason I would not send SoundSmith cartridges for example to Andy Kim pretending he will make them better or equal by adding his cantilever/stylus combo. This is nonsense. I don't want SoundSmith cantilever on ZYX too. |
Chakster, That photo of the cantilever/stylus on your Airy III is quite interesting. Didn’t Nandric indicate that pressure fitting of stylus to cantilever can only be done with an aluminum cantilever? Yet ZYX uses boron, I think. Or am I in error? By the way, where does William Thakker fit in this scheme? He sells main line cartridges at low prices, too, from Europe. |
@hdm I think it fairly obvious that you don’t believe in buying expensive cartridges. Reason I say that is if you did happen to spring for one of these, I seriously doubt you would want it compromised once it needed a retip by any of the non factory retippers. My previous Benz could be retipped by Soundsmith, ( although it doesn’t need a retip yet), but why would I go that route, I would end up with a cartridge that wouldn’t hold up to my old Benz...and therefore imo would be a kludge at best. |
- 319 posts total