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The Science of Cables

It seems to me that there is too little scientific, objective evidence for why cables sound the way they do. When I see discussions on cables, physical attributes are discussed; things like shielding, gauge, material, geometry, etc. and rarely are things like resistance, impedance, inductance, capacitance, etc. Why is this? Why aren’t cables discussed in terms of physical measurements very often?

Seems to me like that would increase the customer base. I know several “objectivist” that won’t accept any of your claims unless you have measurements and blind tests. If there were measurements that correlated to what you hear, I think more people would be interested in cables. 

I know cables are often system dependent but there are still many generalizations that can be made.
mkgus
kosst_amojan
2,095 posts
 
@cleeds 

Who cares? Measurementalists are free to conduct their own tests.
I'd expect this kind of mindless quip from you. The OP asks a very rational question that clearly went clean over your head. How do you properly pair components if you don't know what the measurements on them are like? I suppose you'd suggest "Go blindly groping in the dark and sample all the snake oil for yourself" rather than use some basic analysis to narrow your options.

Teo, I'm not sure what stone age you're from. Not only can we measure the movements of electrons, we can measure their spin. We can most certainly measure the motion of atoms with more precision than the human ear. Just because you don't have the tools to do it with doesn't mean it's impossible. The entire reason we invent tools of measurement is because these tools measure with greater precision than our senses do. 
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio
643 posts
 

Hi vwfan53

Remember when HEA went discrete only giving the listener a volume control to adjust lol? We all looked at each other and said "what are these guys thinking". It was like a big joke at first until we realized these goofballs were serious.

I think more than anything, going to a volume control only was what started the writing on the wall for the end of HEA. And they made this horrible move with such arrogance. So weird to walk into a studio with all the adjustments then walk into a HEA store and there were none. Think about the insanity of HEA plug & play. Instead of making an adjustment these guys would change out a component. They made a hobby out of component swapping. I’m still amazed at the few who still are stuck in that mode, and stuck in that mode standing on mounds of ashes.

What a sales job!

Like I’ve been saying along with those who are sane, DSP, Equalizing or Physical. Only three ways this thing is going to work or ever did work.

Thank you vwfan53 for posting your post.

mg


BTW I should add to be clear, I don't use an Eq and I don't use DSP. I use variable Acoustical, Mechanical and Electrical adjusting tools, a purist approach.

cleeds
2,065 posts
 
kosst_amojanm
@cleeds I'd expect this kind of mindless quip from you. The OP asks a very rational question that clearly went clean over your head. How do you properly pair components if you don't know what the measurements on them are like?
Kosst, you might want to calm down, then carefully read the OP again. He doesn't mention a single thing about component measurements - he's talking about cables. And my response to him was in reference to his topic, which was cables. Now you complain about my comment, but reference it to components, which were not part of the conversation.

So if anyone here has been "mindless," it's likely Kosst for not understanding the topic that's under discussion here. Or perhaps he is just cruising for an argument. It's difficult to tell with Kosst.
ieales's avatar
ieales
297 posts
 
@taras22 

"The only natural metal liquid at room temperature is mercury"

EGaInSn - Thank-you for confirming.

Other than being liquid, there are few properties that one would consider ideal for audio electronic connection. The material's primary benefit over solid connectors is that it is 'stretchy.' Given that audio connections remain fixed, using a material which has lower conductivity and non-constant or inconsistent charge density seems pointless.

See http://www-personal.umich.edu/~kaviany/researchtopics/SYu_JCP_2014.pdf and https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/23746149.2018.1446359

It may have sonic properties that differ from Cu and Ag, but that is the same claim made by every other cable maker for their product!
jmlmx
1 posts
 
One way of measuring often applied is to take note of the output frequency and amplitude as it comes out of the amplifier using an oscilloscope and compare it to same at the input of the speaker. Interestingly, it seems that although measurable, it matters little to listener preference. 

There are numerous blind tests where listeners can't tell the difference between a big box store cable like Monster and coat hangers [ https://gizmodo.com/audiophile-deathmatch-monster-cables-vs-a-coat-hanger-363154 ] 

But what if you use better cables and invite self professed audiophiles to listen? Here's an interesting article from Stereophile magazine where such a test was done. What I find interesting is that the second highest rated cable in the test had the worst fidelity, and the worst rated cable was right there in the middle when frequency and amplitude were measured.
[  https://www.stereophile.com/content/minnesota-audio-society-conducts-cable-comparison-tests-0 ]
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