Tidal Speakers owners

I need to add that how can something that doesn't change be subjective. It can't. The only thing subjective about something that doesn't change is how we like it. Taste is subjective. However no matter how much we like or dislike the sound from a speaker its deviations between the input signal and its output will be constant. That is a fact even if we can't measure it.

The only way neutral could be subjective would be if individual taste would be part of how to detect neutrality, and that is not the case. Taste is only involved when you determine what is best.

Neutral and best certainly is not the same.

Thank you Mr Janczak.

Your position on this issue is very convincing and makes me want your products even more.

I would actually say that to use hearing and listening evaluation as tools for manufacturing a speaker would be good for a DIYer who knows what he wants, but to do that when manufacturing a speaker for market with as many opinions as people would be very unprofessional and selfish.

Thank you Herr Janczak.

Roysen, You say, "Please then imagine there existed a single measurement tool which shows neutrality. This measurement would undoubtably have shown the same degree of neutrality with or without listeners. That is a fact and not subjective." All that I really can say is that I entirely agree, but this is unimaginable.

That is my entire point. Were we to have such a measure, there would not be thousands of manufacturers or any point to discussions about speakers on Audiogon. The real question is what happens if we lack that measurement.

05-13-11: Tidal
A chameleon-like ability to follow every change in equipment is always a first little sign for “neutrality” of a speaker if one does not have or care about measurements.

Jörn - This comment struck me. A while back, I started an A'gon thread on the topic of neutrality. In it, I proposed a way to judge the neutrality of a component in cases where you do not have measurements. Here is what I wrote...

"Your system is becoming more neutral whenever you change a system element (component, cable, room treatment, etc.) and you get the following results:

(1) Individual pieces of music sound more unique.
(2) Your music collection sounds more diverse.

This theory occurred to me one day when I changed amps and noticed that the timbres of instruments were suddenly more distinct from one another. With the old amp, all instruments seemed to have a common harmonic element (the signature of the amp?!). With the new amp, individual instrument timbres sounded more unique and the range of instrument timbres sounded more diverse. I went on to notice that whole songs (and even whole albums) sounded more unique, and that my music collection, taken as a whole, sounded more diverse.

That led me to the following idea: If, after changing a system element, (1) individual pieces of music sound more unique, and (2) your music collection sounds more diverse, then your system is contributing less of its own signature to the music. And less signature means more neutral."

I'd be very interested to hear your reaction to this idea.

Bryon