Used Market Savings vs. The Dealer Experience


Hi all,
I’ve asked a couple questions on these forums and have always gotten great advice, so I’m coming back to the well. My fundamental question is: how do you reconcile (or balance) the auditioning value a dealer provides vs the absolute dollar value you get from buying on the used market?

I bought a McIntosh MA252 recently, and it’s so great it’s convinced me to commit and invest in a serious hi-fi system. I’d drop $30k for something that put my jaw on the floor. Right now I’m running Goldenear Triton 2s, a Marantz TT-15 TT for analog, Mytek Brooklyn + Bluesound Node 2i for digital, and just replaced a Marantz PM-8005 with the Mc. Silnote cables all around. The Mc gave me my first taste of actual holographic imaging and sound you could reach out and touch. Now I want more of that, as well as greater/faster/more pronounced dynamic shifts.

I have a dealer nearby that’s been a joy to work with (bought the Tritons and Mc there). They let me listen to their 200k Wilson setup with D’Agostino amps and sweet little baby Jesus -- it was like trying to box a feral animal in the complete darkness. Lashes of sound just came out of nowhere, smacked you upside the head, and were gone. I was dumbstruck. The Sonus Faber Olympica IIIs, by comparison, were a smoother, more musical sound signature but far less of that arresting clarity.

I make this point because, had I not been allowed to audition this gear, I would have had no idea about any of that. In doing my due diligence to shop for a setup, I know I want to hear Focal Sopras, Olympica IIIs again, Goldenear T-Refs AND maybe a Wilson Sasha for good measure. I want to hear Mc separates, ARC separates, Rega TTs, Linn TTs, etc. To me, my dealer provides real value in auditioning, optimizing, and being confident that what I’m buying is what I like best.

Unfortunately, with new vs. gently used prices, the $ cost of that experience is massive -- $10k+ quite literally. On the used market now I can get Olympica IIIs for $7k instead of $13.5k, a Rega RP10 w/ Aphelion for $6.5k instead of $9ish, Mc C1100 + MC275 for $13k instead of $20k, and a pair of Sasha’s at $15k is within striking distance. New? They’re $30k. I also live in a high sales tax (10.1%) area, which doesn’t help anything.

For those with more purchasing experience, or even dealing experience, how do you square the value of auditioning gear with the exorbitant relative cost of then foregoing the used market? I feel definite guilt sucking my dealer’s resources to then just go buy it all online. That’s bad business, and if everyone did it, there would be no dealers, and heck, no new gear being made.

Is there a better way to do this?

Thanks,
Ben
bfjones01
This is why you go to audio shows. You listen to all sorts of gear and you go back home with ideas and start shopping used or new with no guilt. Most individual dealers IMO don’t have everything I want. For example, how many dealers will carry usher, ps audio, McIntosh, hanss, soundsmith and some other brands in 1 location? If you go into a dealer looking for a system and say you want a certain dac that they don’t carry, they will start bad mouthing the brand they don’t carry and try to sell you 1 of their brands. So if you have to go to a few dealers to create a system, what benefit does a single dealer provide? Are You going to invite multiple dealers into your house to setup your system? Many manufacturers and dealers around the country will give you a 30 day trial period and this will allow you to demo or perform a shootout between different products.
Some dealers know their stuff. But here in Atlanta there are really only two that I feel know enough to rig the speakers they’re trying to sell properly, i.e. with electronics that will show them off properly and setup in a room properly. Those two generally I feel like I’m hearing what the speakers are really capable of because they’re driven and setup properly. The rest of the so-called high end dealers here are all largely clueless. And both of the two I actually DO generally trust are so wed to their own idea of what’s best that even then I wonder if they really know what they’re doing. I’ve generally bought new gear but recently I bought a used Pass Labs amplifier and it has been a game changer for me, so much so I’m wondering what it would do to some of the speakers offered by said two dealers. But it weighs like 110 pounds and there’s no way I’m trucking that into a dealer showroom. Oh the dealers would be happy to accommodate me if I would though. Anyway I think the current Pass products are an example of something you can buy used. They are built to LAST and are difficult to abuse. So I do think there are items that you can "more" safely buy used than others. Cables are another item you can buy used for example.  With regard to discounts I wonder if it  largely depends on the market in the particular city you're in.  10% YES.  15% has been a harder sell for me in working with dealers.  20% almost never unless its something they already want to get rid of.

pwhinson


PM sent.  I enjoy reading about your love of the Pass Labs power amp.


Happy Listening!

stereo5

were the guys from Spearit Sound able to find jobs after the closing?

A shout-out to Jack Tozzi.   Happy Listening!

I buy a mix of new/used/demo, based on the relationship I have with the dealer and the price of the gear.

Goodwin's High End treated me very well on my pair of monoblocks.

Spearit took great care of me for my previous set of speakers and my current preamp.  It is really too bad they are gone now.  

Mark at Reno HiFi is a true gentleman and a terrific business person.  I got my Pass Labs XP-15 from him.  He offered to send me the phono-stage and if I didn't like it, I could return it, paying only for shipping to and fro.  That's good business-- really good business, and it doesn't cost a lot to ship a phono stage.

I wouldn't hesitate to call a nearby dealer and ask what they have for demo, used or consignment gear, and would pay a reasonable premium for that gear over something on line, or straight-used.  Really good dealers allow you a week to 10 days to try the gear and you can return it if you don't like it-- like Goodwin's did for me.

I have purchased some really nice used gear, right here on Audiogon.  I have been very fortunate to get good deals on great products from really nice people.  When I strike up a conversation with somebody about their gear, I can usually tell if they are good people or somebody I should run away from in a pretty short period of time.  I ask straight forward questions;  "Are you the original owner?  How old is the product?  Has it ever been serviced?  Is the warranty transferrable?"  I always trust my instincts and have actually developed some friendships with sellers on Audiogon.

Bottom line-- unless something is priced really inexpensively, like 30-40% off, make sure you can return it if it doesn't work in your room.

Hope this is helpful.