I meant no Rowland etc. mentioning integrated amps not their top of the line offerings. Same with VAC. His integrated, as excellent as it is, won't give me enough drive. Gryphon Diablo, $15k I guess, would be kind of inexpensive choice. Ypsilon hybrid is $25k. But frankly, I would go with older separates from Gryphon, Lamm, Vac, Rowland or Pass for about the same cost, but not for $15k I think unless I am very lucky. It is much more difficult with speakers.