who wants tone controls on your next preamp?


I can remeber tone controls. They used to be on preamps, and integrated amplifiers. Then somehow, they vanished. I KNOW why they say they got rid of them, but really i think it was so cable manufacturers could sell billions of dollars worth of cables. Anyone else also notice tone controls disappeared same time as we all started to need 'special cables'? it's a plot!
I want tone control back on my stuff.
How about you?
Of course, they would have to be defeatable.
elizabeth

Showing 10 responses by carlos269

Onhwy61,
You hit the nail on the head. If most audiophiles had any idea of what all can be achieved though the use of mastering level studio gear, they would quickly realize how silly the high-end's cable, component and tweaks/isolation/power-devices' "swap-trial-and-error rituals" really are.

One of these days, I'm going to have to make some time to post my reference system; as I'm now able to achieve everything that I want from it's sound reproduction, and all at a turn of a knob or two and/or a click of few switches. It so far beyond the realm of the high-end audio world that it makes the dogma of the audiophile's "purist's approach" appear not only stale and archaic but sheer lunacy!

You would think that with so many intelligent individuals in the ranks, more would have already figured it out; that it's all, after all, "The Great Audiophile Swindle!" But I guess that you need to know a little bit about the recording process, sound reproduction, acoustics, psychoacoustics, electronics and musical timbre, along with some common sense, to figure it out.
Kclone,
I understand where you are coming from. I also started down the same path: buying the most expensive components I could afford, changing to the latest cables which magazine reviewers claimed to be the best thing since sliced bread......and then all of the sudden I started taking notice of the kind of world I was living in: $4,000.00 "Power-cords", $90 fuses, resistance compensating speaker cables and all the snake oil marketing, which has no real basis or foundation in science and engineering; so possessing advance degrees in both physics and electrical engineering, I said to myself this is all nonsense. Surely we should be able to manipulate all spatial and the musical presentation's parameters through electrical means, signal-processing?????? I then dove deep into the mastering world and discovered that studios DO posses such tools, signal processors to manipulate every aspect of the playback's presentation. Unfortunately, there is no free lunch as the top quality mastering gear is also extremely expensive, but you get away from the "blind" audiophile exercises to "known", predictable, repeatable, defeat-able and scale-able exercises. Let's just say that it's a great world. Haven you ever stopped and wondered why a remastered version of a recording can accomplish so much more than component swaps, and certainly more than gold fuses and $5K power-cords? Just think of the K2, XRCD, XRCD2, XRCD24 and K2HD remasters. Don't you wish you could do the same for any recording at home? Again, this is not plug and play like the component, cable swapping merry-go-around, as it does require you to know what the knobs and switches actually do and what effect they have on the recording; analogous to "anybody can get behind the wheel of a formula-1 race car, but only some one who knows what he has in front of him and knows how to use it will get the most out of it.

Onhwy61's recommendations are a good place to start.
Orpheus,
What do you think microphone positioning does? Furthermore, recording engineers? Mastering engineers? What do you think is going on when you swap interconnects, speakers cables and power cords? Isolation devices, fuses, magic-pebbles and power conditioning devices? When you change listening positions? or room treatment? Or the temperature of the listening room or of the recording/performance's venue? When you adjust the volume? In your "music lover's head", what do you think is going on then?
Orpheus10,
I'm afraid that this discussion may be too hard for you to grasp as no one is talking about messing anything up, but rather using signal processors to bring the tonal balance and timbre back to what our experience indicates sounds real. Philosophically speaking, it is no different than one's component and speaker selection or choice of cables, but in a more intelligent way.
Kijanki,
I'm not surprised and that's why this whole concept of "Absolute Sound" (the basis for Audiophilia) is so bogus as we all perceive sound slightly differently due to anatomical differences. It kind of lends even greater value to such devices doesn't it?
Herman,
That type of mental exercise is a little naive as the only ones who have that type of traceability to the original performance where those who were there. How many of your CD's/LP's have you been a witness to their original recording/performance? You are obviously not familiar with the recording process, mixing and the mastering process. How do you know that the microphones pickup the entire spectral spectrum and spatial cues? You owe it to yourself to get the Stereophile Test CD1, which has the pickup of many different microphones on the same live person/speaker being switched real-time; it will shed some light on the effects of the recording chain. Ideals are only that!
Herman,
So how does the "Absolute Sound" relate to "Audiophilia"? Not only would the playback, aka stereo systems, have to be ideal but the whole recording process, which is clearly out of the listeners control. I think that is a bit of a stretch! Check-mate!
Bob P.
"How the trumpet is recorded is really irrelevant" Wow! You know the issue is much deeper than what I have presented above. To truly faithfully reproduced the trumpet in ones own listening room, you would have to recreate the same environmental conditions in which recording was made, down to the same acoustical characteristics and temperature; and this is all on top of having an "ideal" recording chain that is not only neutral but also able to capture all the information necessary for one's sensory system. If you think that this is close to happening with the Audiophile "purist's" approach then I think you have swallowed the oath's hook, bait, and sinker!
Herman,
Do I need to bring "Schrodinger's Uncertainty Principle" into this discussion? I'm trying for your sake not to take the discussion too deep as it will inevitably lose some of the audience. Check-Mate!
Herman,
I have not tried to be condescending so don't take offense. The issue that I have with the "note" example that you site is that it is not occurring in a perfect anechoic chamber and therefore is subjected to the forces of it's environment; therefore you must first re-create that same environment in order to attempt to reproduce it faithfully. If we are talking about the "absolute" note. Otherwise you will have the convulsion of the environment in which it created with the environment in which it is being playback. The principles that I sited simple states that in every measurement, controlled or not, there is a certain measure of uncertainty, which therefore does not allow you to be 100% certain that what you have measured in space and time has stayed static during the measurement.

Listen I know the point that you are trying to make, which is that in theory, you should be able to re-create an event. Unfortunately when it comes to music reproduction/playback there are too many variables that make this task simply impossible in the here and now and in foreseeable future.

I apologize if I was out of line, that was certainly not my intention as you have proven to be a worthy opponent.

I will try to find the time to post my system this weekend so that you can see where I'm coming from.