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Will SME-V, etc benefit with non-stock alignment?

Hi,
it was suggested by some most knowledgeable member(s) on the subject of tone-arm alignment, to start a dedicated thread for 'fixed' stylus-to-pivot measurement arms.

To my knowledge those would be ALL SME arms, as well as ALL Linn arms -- there might be others.

The issue in particular is the method of overhang adjustment by moving the pivot (bearing arm post) a la SME to accommodate slight variations in cart design. Linn does not even offer that (go buy their cart(s), and get a life :-)

In the case of SME, the expected mounting hole to stylus tip distance being 3/8" or in more 'current metrics' 9.52 mm. (sorry not US quite as yet, i.e. both are valid)

If a cart has this design criteria, AS WELL AS! the cantilever in the centre AND STRAIGHT with respect to the cart body / mounting screw holes, and more recently all with a tapped thread in it, they would HIGHLY qualify, or?
BUT, how do you see, or know this is the case in the first place, when purchasing a cart?

Given ALL is right-on within spec. you then are 'stuck' with the alignment that, e.g. was decided (for you the purchaser).
As soon as you'd like to try some other alignment scheme, and there are some: Löfgren A (Baerwald) -- the SME point of view/choice, Löfgren B, Stevenson, plus in fact you may make up your own, that may be to your liking. BUT NOT with any of the 'fixed' type arms, since it'll play havoc with the arms intended alignment geometry. (Ask DerTonearm if you don't believe me. He'll give you the low-down right to the 100th of a millimetre!)

So far, so good. You can go to one of the expert template makers, state your case, give your cart and arm parameters and ask him to make on for you. 100$ ---- to 500$? somewhere around there.
BUT WICH alignment then please?!

One you think is better? The same? Why bother for the same?!
And IF different, will it actually work for you?

Well, if not, go spend some more 'greens' on the next try?

Of course if you are aware of these issue, you just go and buy another arm, right?
Hallo, but what about synergy for SME decks, ditto Linn decks and arms?

So hope to have made the point sufficiently clear. So let's see what we can learn, that we do NOT know as yet.
Could get interesting, I hope so.

But please keep it informative and don't come tell us a dentists drill will be a better choice than XYZ tonearm choice.
Thank you for reading,
Axel
axelwahl
axelwahl OP
788 posts
 
Hello Jarr,
sorry, 3/8" = 9.52 mm must've been a typo! Thank you for that correction.
That point was actually raised by some Lyra owner(older Lyra type I guess) quoting 8mm for screw hole to stylus distance. I guess he had measured it, but only he knows (you may check with him back in the thread)

Great to know, that Lyra is spot on 3/8", and thank you for making that clear (straight from the horses mouth, so to speak)

>>> unless the re-tip involves rather violent measures (grin). <<<
It was NOT a Lyra re-tip, you might have missed that part or it was not mentioned. In fact the boron cantilever was 'yanked' out of the alu-tube, so it was violent when it got damaged. The replacement was a Fritz Gyger Special with boron cantilever.

>>> In any case, Axelwahl, your story doesn't (yet) make sense to me. <<<

I hope THIS makes more sense to you now. I had the opportunity to compare the re-tipped item to an original stock item and it was CLEARLY longer then the stock one --- BUT as I said nothing to do with your re-tipping service. There was no interest in a Lyra re-tip, rather a new sale as it came to the same cost as a new one, I recall. The stylus was not worn when it broke. It was quite new in fact (not done by me I might add)

I read the rest of what you say, and I agree. However, I didn't just want to throw this item away, so I had it done by someone that was prepared to re-tip it. So it goes at times...

This re-tipped Lyra sounds VERY good, so it was worth while to do in this specific case.

Greetings,
Axel
rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
Dear Axel: You always can drill slots to the tonearm base.

It is already stated that the V is a non universal alignment cartridge where there is no orthodox alignment answer.
This SME subject IMHO give us a good lesson: " the necessity of oficial standards " like the distance between the stylus and cartridge hole.

I'm sure that Dertonarm like many of you already take note to add this kind of useful " standard " to what we will ask through our starting Association. To achieve some of those " standards " will make a more " easy life " with better results for all of us.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
Dear friends: I miss the point, Dertonarm posted that already exist ( through the IEC ) that standard so what we have to do is try that the cartridge builders follow it, with no exception: right?

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
rauliruegas
9,123 posts
 
I mean: armboard.
jcarr
341 posts
 
Giggsy was referring to the Clavis DC. This is a far older design (its replacement was the Helikon, which itself has been in production for 10 years).

Your situation starts to make a bit more sense, Axelwahl, thank you.

But if you had a chance to compare the Allearts retip (which you said was closer to 9.52mm) to a stock Dorian (which I designed for 9.52mm) and found the retipped version clearly longer, again the numbers don't add up. The only plausible scenario that comes to mind is if the "stock" Dorian that you compared the Allearts-retipped cartridge to was actually not stock, but had been retipped with a shorter cantilever.

FWIW, I've had Allearts cartridges, and didn't consider the cantilevers to be so different in length from what I use, so I doubt if a Lyra-made Dorian would be much shorter than an Allearts retip.

BTW, we don't do retips. Only head-to-toe full rebuilds that involve complete replacement of all wearable and cosmetically blemished parts (although more than a few cartridges that come back to us only need a good cleaning and mild readjustment, rather than a rebuild). From what you have said, your Dorian would benefit from a proper rebuild (sounds like it has had a _very_ hard life).

regards, jonathan carr
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