ZYX Universe - Unipivot or Dual Gimbal arm

Doug,thanks for the insight on your "2.2 vs the world" experiences.It tells me a heck of alot more about the choices made by the owner of such an expensive table/arm/cartridge,and the people involved in it's set up(it makes NO difference who they were),as opposed to the arm's real potential,knowing it as I do.Something you clearly have not heard,or the other hobbyists who were present at the listening session (a session I've been hearing about for a year,already).I do wish you and Larry(BTW-what happened to you?--a return call would have been polite)would give that session a break!It's tiresome,and seems like a marketing effort,though I know it is not conscious.BTW--I assume based on your observations,the 2.2 must be overrated,regardless of world renown.Alot of well known and well versed(not as much as you,obviously)hobbyists/industry types must be sort of dumb.Well at least not as smart as you,based on your plethora of insights on numerous threads,which are ALL absolutely RIGHT,of course.

Firstly there are maybe three reasons for your "eyebrow raising" comments.Asside from probably liking the 2.2 very little(enough with the "breaks in cable run",which is a laugh,in reality,though technically you can have that one).#1-There was a BIG TIME mismatch,somewhere,like table arm,for all I know.Or more likely arm/cart.(which would be a shame,as I just influenced a friend to by an AIRY for his Graham 2.0).

#2-a defect,in the 2.2(unlikely,but possible),or another component.

Lastly,and I'm really beginning to feel this IS credible,based on some absolutely rediculous comments,covering a wide variety of cartridges, and comments like MURKYNESS(PLEEEEASE!)INEPTITUDE on the part of whichever set-up person was on hand.Let me say it again,in case you may have missed it---Overwhelming ineptitude!!I will admit that possibly nobody tried that hard,though that's probably a stretch,on my part.It seems that there were at least you and Larry,as well as some others mentioned(you mentioned other names,and my response is the same).SORRY for this seeming harsh,I do like both of you,yet if I buy someting,like a 2.2,which does happen to be very tricky to properly voice,I make it my business to LEARN it's secrets.BTW- I intend to try my hand at a Schroeder REF in the not too distant future,as I simply "MUST" get my hands on it,sort of like a hidden signal,forcing me to do so.So this response,by me,is not to defend something I own,for the sake of ego.But you are SO WRONG by the general flavor of your grandiouse critical comments of the 2.2 that it is laughable to me,and I have come to the conclusion that whomever set-up the arm WAS CLUELESS!!Maybe the Graham works best in Jersey,and Brooklyn systems?Also,sorry to mention that when one applies the "GLOP",dampening fluid,it affects downforce as well as vta.The three are directly associated with oneanother.Also,from what I DO know about the tracking force used in Larry's set-up,being high,I am more than suspicious of this,alone.Even HP has recommended increasing downforce on the superb XV-1s,and sorry to say,it is a mistake, to go over a manufacturers recommendation,usually.My friend has gone to Sea Cliff,and tells me the part of "Porgy and Bess" where there is a dice rolling,to him,and HP,(on the famous Sea Cliff system)sounded like Boulders down a canyon.In his set-up(my pal's) it sounds like dice on a floor.He refuse to go back to Sea Cliff,even with the vaulted Emitter in system,unless the "dice" problem is solved.

Doug,I was very surprised by the sort of nasty way some have responded to Raul,for making comments,wrong or right.It must be hard to use a differing language to relate thoughts,and I don't think any of us would do better in Raul's native language.At least he tries to be helpful.Anyone reading him for any time should realise he is well intentioned,and may make seemingly absurd comments,based on overentusiasm,only.I get the impression that Raul SO loves the hobby,and relating to other hobbyists he gets too entusiastic.So what!To be called something like a "knowledgeable incompetent" (not exact words,but close)is a surprising insult,and should require an appology(BTW-I know you,Doug,did not make these comments).

Basically,and though it will be taken in an unfavorable light my guess is that,based upon your comments of such unfavorable performance,by the 2.2,in Larry's system,or any other,for that matter,with the UNIVERSE(don't repeat,please,that you've heard so many other cartridges with it,too,I get the picture),and based on my own observations(as well as friends),in three local systems,all using a 2.2 with differing cartridges(My old Wheaton is still in a friend's set-up,and is heard regularly.I don't miss it!),I have to believe that Raul,though surprisingly candid,was DEAD RIGHT."Sell the Universe"!

Oh yeah,hasen't the room,in question,been mentioned as being problematic,and excessively bright?That cannot be too good.Ya think?

Sirspeedy,

I'm close to not posting any longer toward any of these types of threads becuase it just takes too much out of me. As one that is guilty of making nasty remarks to Raul I take offense to him getting a pass for exactly the same behavior. Whenever I confront him it is not because he has a different opinion on any particular product. I have no problem with that at all. What I take gross exception to is the fact that a lot of folks that aren't all that knowledgeable may take his words as gospel. His comments need to be challenged to provide balance to the readers. He is very quick to condemn any methodology used by those that disagree with him and asks questions, every one of which is meant to undermine the posters credibility. Whenever a question is asked of him about his methods he refuses to answer. If he insults a person wrongly (usually by taking a comment made by person A and attributing to person B) and is called on it he is too stubborn to simply say he made an error and will not back down. If you read his posts and his replys to those that disagree with him you will see that there is very little language barrier going on. Certainly he is crafty but stumbling with English? Hardly. Why would you give him a pass for a blatant insult? In your own case you can be pretty darn brutal but you follow up with a humorous (to me) explanation of just how passionate you are. You do not offend me in the least. Some very valid points are brought up in these threads questioning if a controvertial item was given a fair chance. The cartridge screw torque on the Graham is a good example. I love those types of insights because it furthers all of our knowledge. I've been accused of being a ZYX fan club member and saying that the ZYX line is the "Best". I've never come close to being a club member and further I wouldn't belong to a club that would have me as a member. While I've been guilty of typing the word best it's part of a statement that may read up there with the best, one of the best or some such. I've always disclosed that I don't know it all nor have I heard them all. I love tubes but in Raul's world he calls them tone controls as if transitors are just so totally neutral. He knows it's insulting because he's been told it is and will not stop using that phrase just for the sake of peace. His blanket statements about step up transformers degrading the signal are not based in fact, science or even listening. Such blanket statements are dangerous as viable options are cast aside unfairly. I don't own a Schroder, Teres, Triplanar or a UNIverse. I have no horse in this race except a desire to share what I heard and I trust my ears, not others, more than anyone else I know. I for one stopped referring to the cartridge/arm shootout that rubs you the wrong way a long time ago. No matter how hard we tried to be scientific with our comparrisons it didn't measure up to Raul's standards. But, consider that a negative comment about a ZYX at RMAF carries maximum weight in Raul's world. I know each of these so called club members pretty well and they are just nice people without any agenda. All any of have tried to do is share our experiences. If we're guilty of anything then it is enthusiasm for finding products that really have outstanding qualities for the price. I've owned a Yatra II and now have an Airy 3. They aren't in the same class as a UNIverse but they do enjoy a lot of the positive atrributes described of the UNIverse. Numerous folks with less money to spend on a cartridge than those in the thread have contacted me about the lesser ZYX products. What I've written them in private must have tipped them in favor or a ZYX. Each one has expressed how happy they are and thanked me for what I told them about my experience with the sound. I've been told that my observations were spot on and the positives I described were exactly what they were looking for. Again, I have enjoyed your banter with the "club members" and only take issue with your defense of Raul when he is so obviously trying to be rude.

"The cartridge screw torque on the Graham is a good example. I love those types of insights because it furthers all of our knowledge."

Amen. Thanks Lugnut.

Doc

Lots to cover in this thread ... I'll try to pluck off a few salient points.

I feel a bit odd, being in the middle of this ZYX love-fest, but I have to admit that they are mitey-fine cartridges. I have to agree with Raul however that the Dynavector XV1-s is also extraordinarily good. To date, these two marques are my fave.

Regarding the RMAF and my main room, one characteristic of the Exemplar horns we had at the Rocky Mountain Audiofest is that they can be a touch "hot" in the 2.5K to 3 KHz region. Several owners and I have been collaborating about this, but alas, the show deadline quickly approached and I had no time to act. A crossover parts upgrade has been reported to ameliorate this low treble bump.

I've been playing with Bastanis loudspeakers since returning from the show. They're definitely better behaved in this region, although like any transducer, they are not perfect. After their 400 hour break in (they're working on reducing this through an accelerated burn-in at the distributor's), I'll know more about them.

To Doug ... adjust azimuth visually for starters as you currently do, and then perform your fine adjustment by ear. Listen to female voice for imaging, depth, and best dynamic behavior when she belts it out. Azimuth when properly adjusted will transform the sonic images from a flat cardboard cutout presentation to one with real bodies in space.

Electronic adjustment of azimuth (for equal output in both channels) loses site of the fact that in doing so, you may end up with the stylus not sitting squarely in the record grooves. It's an unfortunate reality that cartridges cannot be manufactured perfectly.

Of course, if you're lucky then you will have the best of both worlds - equal output and while riding squarely in the groove. Better lucky than smart ;-)

If you adjust to track squarely in the groove, you may suffer a slight channel imbalance. This is an argument for either dual mono volume controls or a balance control, and not for adjusting your azimuth for equal output.

The first goal should always be to align the stylus with the groove.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

Dear Lugnut,thanks for being so candid and TOO polite in your correspondence.To be honest,I DO have too big a mouth,at times,and surely went a good bit overboard in this posting.I have respect for Doug(you too Cello),and have mentioned it in past posts,so I hope I can be taken less venomously.Is that a word?

Some know this overly done trait of mine,and some may take it badly,though this is not an apology.I'm truly happy you don't feel negative,in general.Lugnut,you're seemingly one of the really good guys,so I've read.I don't like to be too straight forward,and like to put a bit of edge on my comments,with an eye towards baiting,only because this sometimes results in a stimulating debate/exchange,that can sometimes stray from the "ask and tell" questions,that are a norm.Guys like Frank Schroder,picked up on this trait,of mine,a long time ago,and can spot my BS in a N.Y. minute.It's one reason why I enjoy his chiming in,even though he (smartly)markets product, sometimes.BTW--I'm not considering any new arm purchases for a really ling time,so don't anyone accuse me of "toying" for any future discounts.I know plenty of "simple hobbyists disguised in reviewers clothing",who do this plenty,and that is something that diminishes the hobby,to me.Yes I am guilty of "really liking my current stuff"(which is damn good-TBH),after alot of years in the hobby.Yet I'm not married to any of it.I even got new tennis rackets,this summer,after 12 years.Happily I'm ,actually,and surprisingly,satisfied with my game.But I DO work at it as hard as I have worked on my system.Harder really(if one considers taking buckets of balls down to the courts in 35 degree weather,to fine tune a serve).Something my inlaws just don't get!Though my tennis partners endorse.A little humor!

Lugnut,based on some threads,regarding you,I know you are very well received by many,and I don't want to be anything other than polite,but I hope you get some of my following points.I,too am debating as to whether or not,to continue on these forums.Basically there can,in some cases,be a hidden agenda to some contributors.Some are market oriented,and some are very nice,yet some are a bit disingenuous.The latter is what I will,in the future,be sceptical of,and not freely give out any personal information to.Something I have been too naive about,though warned by friends of.I have also gotten E-mails trying to sell me stuff,at unbelieveably low prices.Who knows who a potential friend really is,or someone with an agenda?In my personal life I really DO like to be an open,and genuine person.

I did get carried away with my comments to Doug,and am ALWAYS sorry,after the fact,yet like the scorpion and frog,I can't help myself!

As for any humor,too few of us have it,and wouldn't it be way more fun if some fuddy duddys took themselves less seriously!

As far as any responsibility to newbees.PLEEEASE!Here is where you are either way too nice a guy,or simply naieve!Anyone taking any poster seriously enough to actually make a buying decision based upon the advice of any poster,particularly me,deserves(not really,but you get the point)to make a wrong choice in the equipment chosen.Even those foolish enough to put a Graham 2.2 on a "non tuned" suspension(BTW-tried it and it was a mistake,yet I could have easily blamed the arm).The only things "Audio" I know about(to a degree)are those things I buy,and live with,for a good while.That's it!Pause for thought--Ever wonder why a company like Brinkman is now recommending the HRS suspension platforms for their suspensionless tables?Or how,almost militant,Basis feels about a REAL suspension,and it's effect on performance.This is a cerebral hobby,as someone once said to me.I honestly don't know,yet am beginning to see things in a suspicious light.And yes,I'm a bit delusional,but hey,my friends like me.

As to my defense (sort of)of Raul.Firstly I really like him,and he has criticised me PLENTY(subwoofer threads,etc).Lugnut,if you have ever had a teenager(I am not stating Raul has a teen mentality,just follow my drift)you have been subject "PLENTY" to over the top enthusiasm,sometimes confrontational.Yet there can(as long as there are no embarrasing outbursts in front of the inlaws)be many times you simply have to take it with a grain of salt,and let it go.This is my "take" on RAUL,who really seems to LOVE his input,a bit too much.Yet it is STILL harmless,and he is knowledgeable.Don't delude yourself into thinking nothing can be learned,or at least given a new spin,from him.All of us must feel that some of our input has substance,sometimes,or we wouldn't post.Overall,the only post,of mine,that has any validity,was last years 2.2 damping fluid input.Because I've spent ALOT of time with it,on three set-ups.No other posts,by me,are relavent.I don't take myself all that seriously.Seriously!!Yet,in the past,I probably posted,and bloviated too much.At least I knew it.I did much of it with a smug smile,on my face.Some of my friends think I'm wasting my time,when doing so,and lately I wonder if they are right.Any newbee spending serious dough,from such input is probably in touch with a dealer(remember when we were supposed to get help from them,many years ago,in another galaxy,it seems)anyway,and they should be responsible for aiding ANY of us.Money equals support,to my way of thinking.Not an enthusiastic hobbyist( I think that this is all Raul thinks,and correctly so,he is).

BTW-- Last Christmas season,when I started on Audiogon,and was welcomed by the likes of other people,like CELLO,particularly, it was SO much fun,for me,that I kind of got into this habit.It is no longer that much fun,as you know.

About that time there was an INCREDIBLY RUDE and INSULTINGLY CUTTING thread(I think it was a poem,or holiday wish list,or something like that,pertaining to RAUL).To me,it was a DISGRACE,and yes,I may sometimes seem as you state "brutal",but I really don't think I flat out am nasty,to anyone.Engaging in good heated debate is different than THAT thread.

I would have quit this forum,in a heartbeat,if that happened to me(hint?),yet Raul stayed.I often disagree with him,yet I love the guy!I,also respect his tenacity(which is a really good thing to have,if you are a mega-serious tennis player,which I am.Maybe that is the connection).Sorry if you don't understand.I don't have the vocabulary to articulate my emotions,here!I,also felt really happy,for him(seeing how seriously he takes all of this)when his table/arm posts and pictures came out.He was getting attention,that he enjoyed,and worked hard for.He responded to EVERY congadulatory response.Even my "KNOCKS" that he could not have possibly been able to spend the time to voice everything in his collection.I even tried some humor,as to how he ought to worship his wife,for allowing a conglomeration,like his, to accumulate in his apartment living room.I suggested he buy her some"BLING",to keep her happy(I have too,and it works.A nice pair of earings should yield a Schroder Ref,in the distant future.I'm always pondering the strategy, and art, of WAF and accumulating a cool audio purchase).This part I don't think went over too well,with him,as he didn't respond,to it.

Well I probably have shot my load,on varying stuff,and it is probably a bore to most,yet,my response is simply-"I don't care"(actually I'm kidding myself,I do)!!

Best regards to all!!