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Believers VS. nonbelievers???? GEEzzzzz

Curious how certain products elicit praise from one body and "I can't believe you fall for that snake oil..." from others.
I have a hard time believing some of the stuff (the WORST example is the "Tice Clock" from the early 90's, that you just had to have in the same room!!!)but in general, some of the protesters are ranting on "general priciples" and never tried the stuff/thing in question...(I myself was in that category on power cords till I tried one) and even if they did, it may not have been effective on thier particular system, but just what was needed on someone elses.
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What I am trying to say in a half formed way is that an honest concern about a product and trying to help guide other away from the "stupid mods" is a difficult path to walk. And since we are all experts and know all there is to know about "audiophilia" maybe we could be more modest in damning stuff others think is worth doing. Rather consider that it may be a path of exploration we choose not to follow now. To say "I haven't explored that but I don't think it's worth trying" vs "you are crazy to think that works and a fool for trying it." is a BIG gap.
Any comments?????
elizabeth
sedond
1,314 posts
 
jostler, while i don't disagree w/a lot of what ewe say, there's one glaring ommission from your point of view that ewe fail to acknowledge, and it's simply: yust cuz something can't be quantified w/our present state of technology does *not* mean that it doesn't exist.

sure, future advancements in science may prove some tweeks to be placebo-effect, but many will be finally able to be scientifically quantified. in the meantime, yust cuz they can't be quantified, it *doesn't* mean thay don't exist.

in the early stages of cd, there were similar pissing-contests about its sound - ie: "bits-is-bits", and if ya count the 1's & 0's correctly it will sound the same. but others heard different, it yust took 'em a while to discover jitter. jitter was mucking up the sound and people could hear it. this phenomenon existed before technology was able to finally discover what it was, & how it was working.

that's how science *works*. to believe otherwise, & to refuse to accept something that has yet to be *scientifically proven* is to *really* have yer head in the sand. so far in that perhaps only yer toes are sticking out? ;~)

so, w/some tweeks surely snake oil, designed to take our money & work only on the *placebo-effect*, while others really work & have valid - but as yet undiscovered - physical properties behind them, what's an audiophile to do? well, in my case, my ears work yust fine, thank you! :>)

regards, doug *beating a dead horse?* sedon

no_money
565 posts
 
Doug, don't make me call the S.P.C.A. on you ! No wait, if it's dead I geuss it is o.k. sorry.
jadem6's avatar
jadem6
1,071 posts
 
Very simply and well stated Sedond. I think that the advancement of cd is a excellant example.
479058's avatar
479058
105 posts
 
Doug: I don't think I ever said that if it can't be quantified, it doesn't exist. No fair exaggerating your opponent's position and then criticizing him for exaggerating! What I said was that so far, no one has been able to demonstrate (as opposed to simply make a claim for) an audible distinction between two amplifiers whose known qualities are similar. When someone does demonstrate such, then we can start to look for the reason why, and that might lead us to a new and better understanding of things than we have at present. Alternatively, we could theorize that a particular factor makes a difference, and then test to see if it really does. But we have to start somewhere.
sedond
1,314 posts
 
hey jostler, ewe don't have to specifically state what i inferred - hey, even when there *is* hard scientific data to explain why a tweek may work, ewe refuse to believe it! yust take the green-edged cd's, for example.

re: differing sounds for different amps, it's been proven time & again, repeatedly, by those who can hear. as far as "two amps whose known qualities are similar", well, if they're the same model from the same mfr, yup - i have to agree w/ya! ;~) otherwise, they're *not* similar, & as albert & others have stated, there are so many wariables inwolwed in comparing amps, besides yust the amps, that it's difficult, if not impossible to accurately quantify them objectively, or even subjectively, for that matter. but, sonic differences *do* exist, sometimes they can be scientifically identified, sometimes not.

doug *the horse is surely 2-dimensional by now* sedon

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