Zu Druid IV - the real deal?

>>I'm just a noob at this can you show me where a serious audio company has documentation on "breakin", especially as a linear function of usage?<<

So you have a lot to learn. Good for you. Email me and I will give you all the serious audio companies you wish to contact. Part of the learning process you know.

>>I think Bartockfan's posts present no such problem for any reader<<

Re-read all of his posts and say that again with a straight face.
Thank you.

"But I'm afraid that measurements aren't valued much around here. This is a very subjective and experiential crowd."

Yeah actually I know that, its what I call "feeling around in the dark". And my history has been to march through your "experience" and show that all they really have is a house of cards for your audio knowledge temple.

You can't build a high quality 12 inch fullrange driver without serious instrumentation, so if those measurements matter so much to you, why do the end product measurements matter so little?

One measurement creates the miracle the next is useless? Tsk Tsk, I see philosophical conflict within you.

"The Zu boys took up the challenge and succeeded in their pursuit by using modern materials and instrumentation that was unavailable to WE's very capable staff."

How does a company achieve quality control, without measuring their product? How does technology advance without documented history? Listening to it? Let me tell you that doesn't work. I've had $17,000 Stereophile Speaker of the Year show up after several weeks "shakedown" at the factory with the crossover so badly miswired, I'm not sure how all the speakers worked. And how did they not hear it? How many audiophile visitors just ate it up as the panacea of audio, and half the drivers were messed up in one speaker? Yeah our ears go both ways when it comes to their accuity.

Its all about measurements Macro, you need to understand that the truth is there, because as you mentioned you are prone to mood swings making you a highly dubious source for information. We all are.

The fact that measurements constrict freedom, temper creativity and limit the heights of self-delusion does take the fun right out of the hobby for some I realize.

But for some of us, measurements are the guide post, proof that we are playing back the musical information as the artist intended, even if that means we don't like it as much. Because the artist comes first and myself; I personally feel editing an artists intentions to suit my self is selfish and a seriously short-sited intellectual decision.

Oh well

D_edwards - I'm not one to grab the salt shaker or the ketchup bottle. I respect the chef in that regard. And I do not hasten to modify every product that enters my house with any and every available tweek. I don't have test instruments because I wouldn't know how to use them. However, I am sure that you will find that Sean Casey at Zu can answer your questions about measurements and design decisions. There are no 12 inch drivers in any of Zu's speakers and the mention of Stereophile in any sentence meant to impress me is self-defeating.
The tone of your comments seems to indicate that you have confused us mindless consumers with the geniuses who created the product. Not a fatal error, I suppose but it leads to some very confusing arguments from you.
And your bit about short sighted editing of the artist's intentions calls for a bit of projection. God made winter and created me naked. And every year I put on clothes because the artist set me up to freeze to death if I don't.
Oh, and what's up with the tale about some other speaker company wiring their crossover wrong. What bearing does that have on Zu or this discussion? It sounds like you are attempting to position yourself as superior to that established manufacturer. Perhaps you are. Again, though, what's the point?
Measurements are nice, and as you point out, vital to some pursuits. I don't need any for my audio outside of the cable length or speaker position. I don't know the weight of my car keys, the height of my mulberry tree or the time it takes me to shave. Nonetheless, I've moved through life with some degree of comfort and grace. I don't think I could say that if I had been measuring everything for the last 50 years.
Relax, D_edwards, there's nothing to prove. I like my speakers and you could never provide me with enough data to change that.

D wants measurements from me. What good would it do for me to measure any speaker in my house? Neither I nor anyone else here listens in an anechoic chamber and hardly anyone has their room treated or EQ'd to flat response itself. More to the point, every location I listen to live music in imposes its own acoustic signature too. I've had plenty of speakers in my home that measured "flat." This had only limited relationship to sonic fidelity. No one has yet measured the aggregated simultaneous behaviors of a speaker transducing music. So, yeah, measurements are interesting, and have some relevance, but are not exclusively determinant.

Zu provides specs on efficiency, frequency distribution and on phase coherence. The speakers sound pretty much like they describe, and then some. They also sound like they are missing crossovers, which they are and which is a good thing.

So, bottom line is that in their price ranges, Zu's speakers deliver frequency accuracy, dynamic projection, phase coherence, uniformity of transient behavior top-to-bottom, frequency range and efficiency in sufficient balance to transduce a superior illusion of musical reality from the electrical signal they are fed. Most of us who own them think very few speakers at any price meet or exceed Zus in this regard. And some of the folks who don't own them refuse to accept the conclusion of those who do. It's easy to resolve. Skeptics can uy them and return them if you don't agree. Or get to a location where you can hear them and decide. Fly, drive, walk, hitchhike to Utah and get a demo at the factory from the guys who design and build the speakers. Do what you want, but the answer remains the same. I'm highly experienced at this hobby, have benefit of industry friends if I want something else, get to hear most gear that has any modicum of credibility, and I ventured to buy Zu. The result is that both my systems are at equilibrium and the sound quality I have is the most realistic and natural attained so far, 35 years after buying my first piece of true hifi gear. To answer the original question, yes, Zu Druid is the real deal, and this applies more dramatically still to Definitions.

Phil