Vintage or new turntable

I don't have any model to recommend, but be careful about spending money on an old one that says restored, refurbished, or something in that order. Some will just shine and polish them, clean and re-oil them. A polish job and new oil doesn't fix a tired turntable, nor does a new belt. If they're asking a high dollar, look for new bearings for the platter, not just cleaned and oiled, and polished/refinished wood. A lot are low priced tables made to look good, and sold for high prices. These originally low priced Japanese turntables weren't the best, when brand new. You could oil them yourself. A truly clean original in nice shape will probably give you a lot more in return.

Giantsfreak, congrats on winning the TT. I've been in both places - old vintage and modern. My first reintroduction to vinyl was about a year or so ago. On a whim, I had my old Thorens TD 160 serviced and slapped a Grado Sonata on it. My intro phono pre was a cheapy SS which cost me about $150 and away I flew. Take a look at my current system to find out where I landed.

IMO and IME, I think I'm doing better with my current set-up: a MODERN VPI Classic and Sound Smith VPI Zephyr cartridge. The entire chain of my phono set up was purchased pre-owned from A'gon members. The rest you can see by looking at my system.

A couple of observations. If you pull my TT/carty thread history, you will see that I had a lot of false starts and stops and hit a lot of dead ends before getting to where I am. I think you'll learn a lot from my mistakes.

Another observation is that when folks ask for similar type equipment recommendations (whatever the equipment might be), they're going to hear "experienced" audiophiles list every make a model out there. You're also going to hear "absolute unequivocal" opinions about vintage versus modern. It's all damn confusing.

Here's my advice. Go for pre-owned. That will do best to stretch your $1500 budget. But be careful. Check the member's feedback. That's very important. Turntables, tone arms and carties can get really expensive and fast!

As to modern versus vintage, I personally favor the modern equipment - but that's me. Also, carties can get quite expensive too, like $5000 for a Benz LPS moving coil. I recommend a quality used moving magnet (MM) such as a Clear Audio MM or something from the Ortofon 2M series. One of the members, Raul (something) is a real carty expert. If he catches this thread, maybe he can make some good recommendations. Lewm, Stringreen and Almarg are also very helpful and knowledgeable. Of course there are many others, but these guys come to mind first.

The hard part is the TT. As the recommendations start rolling in, you'll start to see the same names coming up, older VPIs (like the HR-19 series), Clear Audio and so forth. Keep track of the more frequently recommended names and check the Forum threads. The members offer their opinions and experiences often.

Last point, it will be helpful to know what's behind your TT: that is, your current preamp, amp, integrated, CDP and speakers.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

My resonse is somewhat jaded as I readily admit I have a preference for suspension tables in the below $1500 price range. That being said my table for the for the past 25 years has been a modded AR-the turntable- with an Audioquest PT5 arm. I have over the years upgraded cartidges and currently have an Ortofon Cadenza Red which is fantastic. All the mods were done by George Merrill, Dave's mentor and the father of the AR mods. Many people have not heard these tables and think they absolutely could not compete with newer technology. Not true. I would put my TT up against any $1500 table. I have had several amps and preamps pass through my system but I have not had the yen to upgrade my turntable. I have upgraded speakers, rolled tubes ad infinitum, changed cables and added tuning fuses, etc. My TT is still here. I can get upgraditis with the best of them. My digital front end is a McCormack UDP1 Deluxe (I have had a good half dozen CD players too!) that most people who hear my system agree the TT sounds better.

I also have a Thorens TD160 Super stock in a second system which is a much better TT than a TD160 (which I also own currently unplugged) with a modest Linn Basik arm and a Goldring 1042 cartridge (last cartridge in the AR before the aformentioned Ortofon). It sounds pretty darn good. It may be a candidate for Dave's mods at some point.

One advantage the Thorens has on the AR is the ability to switch from 33 to 45 with the flip of a knob. With the AR you have to take the platter off and change the belt on the pulley. Minor deal maybe but if you invest in a lot of 45 LPs it may matter.

All that being said, if I were looking at new tables in the $1500 range, the Clearaudio Emotion looks interesting at least and can be had with cartridge new for $1500. I would try to hear one if I were you. Used, the basic VPI Scout or a tricked out VPI HW 19 come up for sale used in your price range from time to time. Nice Sotas also come up now and then.

I personally have been happy with my modded AR. Dave's upgrades/mods are even improved from GMs having taken them to another level via Anthony Scallia's upgrades of the mod parts, Thorens or AR. I do not think you can make a bad choice one way or the other. As always, if you can audition your options, preferably A-B, it would help your decision making process.

I own, and have owned, both vintage and modern tables. If considering vintage, you will need an appropriate skill set to keep your turntable in proper operating order. A Thorens 124 or Garrard 301/401 would be nice, but if you don't feel comfortable working on a table, new would be best.

Thank you all for your thorough responses. I've contacted Dave at VinylNirvana and am leaning that direction. Having said that, I will get out and audition Clearaudio and hopefully others. I've been watching the VPI and SOTAs here on Agon, so it sounds like I'm looking at the right things.

bifwynne - I will check out your system and history. Thanks