Get their ref pre....lol.... I would agree that you MUST have a great pre or NO pre ;).....It's funny as I am selling off a bunch of systems that my brother, parents and I have had over the last many years and I have been hooking things up and listening to them to make sure they work. One of my least expensive set ups years ago was the Mod Squad passive pre with the B&K ST 140 amp. Honestly, it helps open that dark amp up and makes it listenable even by today's standards. It's that Mod Squad pre that is pretty awesome and will be a pre that is dirt cheap right now and a great start if pared with an amp that can handle it. Like you said, Ayre does the same with the 7. I LOVE the 5 also. That said, I heard the Ref ARC pre with Ayre TOL mono blocks with AQ Wild balanced cable with Vandersteen 7's and the Musical Surroundings TT/arm and I don't know the cart.....It was the best sound I've ever heard. That ARC pre was just surreal. I've heard the same set p with the ARC ref amps too and it was glorious, but I couldn't AB it or anything. I really have liked the ARC stuff, but to me it's not 'tube like' at all. If you need something to the warm side of neutral, then go to Quicksilver.