$10k DAC in a 3k system?


Hello all,

Ive owned the same audio rig for 8 years or so (Rega Mira 3 amp> Rega RS5 speakers) 

My source into the Mira3 amp is a headless fanless micro windows7pc I built running jrivermc> musichall Dax 25.3

i am reading some phenomenal things about some of these Dacs in the 10K range ( Chord Dave, Ayre, Lampizator,PS Audio, etc).

My question is a simple one: the other pieces of my system sound great to me, but are at a much lower price point collectively than one of the dacs mentioned above. Do I need to be concerned about my Amp/speakers being fast/dynamic enough to facilitate a Dac like the Dave? Or could I plug a top notch Dac like that into my system and hear the same things I've heard described in the reviews (but on a relative level) ?

thanks in advance for any insight!
dla123

Showing 3 responses by almarg

I note that your Rega integrated amplifier has a rather low line-level input impedance of only 10K, and that it provides only unbalanced RCA inputs. I couldn’t find an output impedance spec or measurement for your DAC, but it appears that its RCA outputs are driven by a capacitively coupled tube-based output stage. In many designs that kind of output circuit will not be able to drive 10K with optimal results, rolloff of the deep bass being a particularly frequent consequence. Although that may or may not be noticeable depending on the deep bass extension of your speakers.

(It also appears that the DAC’s XLR outputs are driven by a solid state output stage that probably has significantly lower output impedance than the RCA output circuit. But for several reasons I doubt that it would be desirable to use the XLR outputs via any kind of adapter arrangement or transformer).

So while I would certainly expect introducing a 10K DAC into your system to make a difference for the better, I wouldn’t be surprised if a leading contributor to that improvement were simply that the upgraded DAC would provide lower output impedance and better drive capability. Which of course is readily obtainable at vastly lower price points.

Aside from that consideration, it seems to me that in determining the weakest link in your system one need look no further than the fact that your box-type (non-planar) floor-standing 3-way speakers weigh only 26 pounds.

Good luck, however you decide to proceed. Regards,
-- Al

@dla123
The 26 pound weight of each of your speakers is much less than the weight of any other 3-way floor-standing non-planar speaker of comparable dimensions that I can recall, that I would consider to be of reasonably good quality. Such speakers commonly weigh two or three times that amount, and in some cases considerably more than that.

In most speaker designs a fundamental goal is for the cabinets to be as rigid and acoustically inert as possible, which usually means a good deal of weight relative to overall size. Also, I would expect that in general there would be some degree of correlation between the weight of the drivers, especially the woofer, and their quality.

On the other hand, though, there are a few designs which rather than attempting to suppress cabinet resonances attempt to have their effects complement the characteristics of the drivers. Many Audio Note models fall into that category, for example. But even in the case of many or all of the various versions of their popular AN-E model they have produced over the years, which are comparable in size to your speakers (and only have two drivers, rather than the three that your speakers have), weight is in the vicinity of 40 pounds.

So I would have to think that the 26 pound weight of your speakers, given their dimensions, driver complement, and 3-way crossover, most likely reflects significant compromises that were made in the design in the interest of minimizing cost.

Regards,
-- Al

Thanks, Richard (Ricred1).
In my humble opinion one part doesn’t equal same performance.
No question about it. There are of course countless variables and tradeoffs that contribute to the overall performance of a design. And, hypothetically speaking, even if the entire design of a DAC from each of two manufacturers was totally identical from an electrical standpoint, the two components still would not be likely to perform in an identical manner. Even differences in how signals are routed within the printed circuit board, and how the board itself is constructed, can affect performance significantly. That is especially true when digital signals are involved, which have very high frequency components associated with their risetimes and falltimes (i.e., the amount of time it takes the signals to change between their two voltage states). And even more so when that circuitry is in close proximity to analog circuitry.

The kinds of effects that can be involved are not even well understood by many practicing EEs. Which is why a textbook and course on High Speed Digital Design that were created by a noted authority on such matters, which I took in connection with my work a couple of decades ago, was sub-titled "A Handbook of Black Magic."

Best regards,
-- Al