$10k Speaker Cables??????????????

I think those are primarily for people who want to be able to say they have $7221 speaker cables.............

But that's not fair is it? If $1500 cables (like mine) are better than $500 cables which are better than $100 cables....who are we to question why $7000 cables aren't worth every penny. And they're pretty too.

Geoff, having been in the USAF on purchasing committees as well as on Pharmacy and Therapuetics purchasing committees (civilian and military) I can tell you for a fact that when an item is deemed "special purpose" vendors will charge more for identical items that are not "special purpose" and absolutely identical.

To trolls, everyone looks like a troll.

@geoffkait  said:

"It’s not rocket science."

You got that right. But there is money to be made in convincing people that it is, right Geoff?

Blind testing is the scourge of snake oil....

Well Geoff, you have stated multiple times and in very clear terms and on numerable subjects that you know more about everything than everyone.

So yes, capisco.  Capisco, capisco. Very clearly.

And yet, somehow, you are wrong. There are many testing situations in which a single negative test is meaningful....and in fact often constitutes all you need to know. But that's beside the point isn't it? If a test needs confirmation....well, you test some more. Certainly you know that since you know all there is to know about....everything.

A properly designed test IS scientific. But no need to call it "scientific" if you don't want to. The term adds nothing to a well designed test.

And it isn't a matter of tests turning anyone on. Its a matter of a hobby and the industry that surrounds it often making incredible claims about very expensive products. If the claims, bling factor, price tag and some magazine reviewer using all the pat terms is all you need to plunk down big money so be it. If you like what you bought then that's even better. Its all good.

But there comes a point at which the glaring absence of anything approaching credible and reproducible evidence creates a certain level of warranted skepticism and dismissal.

And I suspect those who moan and groan the most about testing are those who stand to lose the most. That includes vendors, magazines and purveyors of dubious tweaks.

For a lot of folks listening to every component they wish to consider is simply not an option. Particularly not in the room and with other components they wish to test. That's kind of why reviews and reviewers exist. And reviews are certainly popular, right?

Have you ever really stepped back and read many audio reviews? They all sound the same. They read more like reviews of high end wines than technical equipment.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that tests, studies, or measurbating are THE prime criteria for deciding what is worth the money and what isn't.

The problem is that there is so very little actual data to use in order to narrow down your choices. Most of what we consume is either the opinions of paid reviewers with obvious conflicts of interest or the views of internet forum members. I'm not knocking any of that. I'm just saying why not have it all?

In the photography world where cameras and lenses often exceed $30K it would be perfectly unheard of for reviews and opinions to come with absolutely zero objective data. Why is it different in the audiophile world?

Further, in the photography world it is not uncommon for a Sigma lens to outperform a Nikon or even a Zeiss at half the price. I suspect the audiophile world is the same......but who would know?

My guess is that a lot of the stuff wouldn't live up to the hype. That might be totally off base but there isn't any good data to suggest otherwise. Just opinion. 

@geoffkait says:

"He is rather snooty, if you want my opinion. Newbies should never be snooty."

Ah, another distinction for which only you hold the credentials.

I seem to remember a set of used speakers for sale here at Audiogon for ~$450,000. I also seem to remember that each speaker had its own built in amplifier. That means you do not need amps/monoblocks or high dollar speaker cables, which really makes them a bargain.

I assume it also means that those of us who have $50k speakers with $10k cables just have no idea what really good equipment sounds like.

Of course the usual response seems to be "Well, I heard a million dollar system at a show and it didn’t sound any better than my $xxxxx.xx system." ;-)

@maritime51 said:

"And, the wench?"

She was not happy with how much I spent on the winch and its cable.

cakyol, Car jumper cables are usually junk with a lot of aluminum in them. But, I recently wired a winch cable from the front of my truck back to my car trailer winch. That heavy high grade cable is super pricey, especially if it is pure copper. I was shocked.....but man my winch sounds good now. ;-)

@karmapolice not everyone can afford to grab a $10,000 set of speaker cables and give 'em a try. 

maritime51, that is a non sequitur. Far be it from me to defend the Catholic Church but their problems today most certainly do not stem from their power struggle with Galileo.

But I think you are right on the money in your intent. It is only natural, and usually prudent, not to initially believe in things that are patently unbelievable.

That seems very un-American.

What do they eat for Thanksgiving in Australia? 

Nowhere. Fast. Happy Thanksgiving.

I saw a Montblanc pen made in conjunction with Purdy shotguns ($100k for one of their guns is nothing). One of the higher level pens is priced at 120,000 pounds. I'm not sure what that is in US dollars. It is a very pretty pen. If you can buy a 120,000 pound sterling pen that will never touch paper, then $10,000 speaker cables are nothing at all. Nothing. And you don't have to be a billionaire for that type of luxury either.

I've heard, urban legend maybe, that there are Ferraris sitting unclaimed and covered in sand in Saudi Arabian airport parking lots. 

Those of us who are merely affluent have no idea what real big money is like.

@elizabeth : Don't forget to have them burned in before you buy them!

@inna : "That's reason enough not to buy $10k cables and Ferraris - not to be associated in any way with those f*****s."

Almost anyone on the street could look at your system and mine and say the exact same thing about us, right?

"And you don't need such an expensive gun for a bullet to go straight to the target."

First off, they're shotguns, so no bullets. Second, Purdy owners (I've know 1 or 2) will tell you there is a lot more to it than the trajectory of shot leaving the barrel. There is balance, feel, grip, momentum of swing, etc. (I've held a few of these guns and they mount and feel great in the hands). But, they are also handmade and of extremely high workmanship. They are also embellished with often elaborate hand engraving and checkering which is much appreciated by their owners and fans.

My point here is not to justify the cost to you ( I do not want and will never own one). The point is that all of these elements which we might consider a fetish are almost exactly analogous to the things audiophiles, even of a modest stripe, put so much emphasis on and pay so much money for. I suspect the Purdy owners I know would be shocked and amused that people pay $10,000 for a pair of speakers to listen to three guys crank on guitars, bass and a drum kit.

"Real money is earned money, my audiophile friend, but of course you already know it."

That's pretty much the only kind of money I've ever had but can't deny that my path in life has been blessed. So I'm not knocking inherited money either. And if a long lost uncle dies and leaves me a bank roll, I won't turn it down and I might even blow it on a $1000 DAC that to me sounds outrageous but to many if not most in this forum sounds like a compromise. ;-)

Yes. I would buy a Ferrari in a heartbeat. On two conditions: 1) I had enough money to buy it and treat it the same way I treat my 350Z. In other words it could not be so precious to me that I was afraid to use it. And 2) That I'd drive the heck out of it, street and track, the same way I do my Z.....which has taken enormous abuse.

I've never known anyone very well who owned a Ferrari. I do know a man who owned a room full of Purdy and pricier shotguns. He was a gun snob in precisely the same way we are all audio snobs. I did not consider that to be a reflection of his character which was otherwise warm and generous. 

Stereotypes are often correct but very frequently wrong as well.

Made you look?

unreceivedogma said:

"  That doesn’t change the point that I’m making, which is that economic inequity has distorted the audio market. "

I would like to see some evidence to support that.

I guess everyone is different about money. And it is always easy to look into someone else's situation and criticize it because it doesn't fit our own outlook.

There is the idea that if you have tons and tons of money then blowing it on $10,000 or $40,000 speaker cables is the thing to do.

I don't think I would be that way....I wish someone would give me tons and tons of money to test my theory.

But I was reading a sickeningly pretentious magazine called Garden & Gun that my wife gets and there was a model on a boat wrapped in a beach towel. The list price of the beach towel was $400. I think I can safely say that even if I was uber-rich I would have no need or desire for a $400 beach towel.

When I'm searching for a $10 item I'll still try to find one for $9.

@geoffkait  Garden and Gun? Its a southern thing. If you'e not from here, don't try to understand it. I live it. But not like in the magazine.

uberwaltz, model not included. Can't say she was all that pretty anyway.

glupson, if I recall it was one of those restored wooden runabouts that cost the same as a Ferrari. Or maybe it was a sailboat. Or a dock. I threw the magazine down after seeing $400 towel.