many thanx for that info cymbop. thats pretty interesting information there. it`s well worth me investigating the 5751`s in the future |
wow thank you guys for the wealth of information. the psvane tubes i`m currently using sound just fantastic but i`m sure they`re limited in the soundstage width and depth. i`ve played around with all the other tubes and so far the brimars have had the best results in the soundstage and tone but i`m looking for more depth in the soundstage. thats really why i`m looking into the 5751 range of tubes. i`ve read good things about the soundstage they throw out. tonally i`m extremely pleased with the range of tubes currently in my amp but like everyone out there, if the sound can be improved upon then why not indeed. you only live once! i`ve been considering getting some sylvania 6sn7gt`s too to mix with the brimars. i think the wgt`s will have too much upper attack for my system but i have my eyes on a matched pair of sylvania bad boys. the gtb`s that i`m using right now seem to go hand in hand with the brimars tonally. voices are amazing! i tried the brimars with a matched pair of rca vt231 grey glass tubes but it was an awful match. too much warmth to the point of making it sound dull. i had such high hopes too for this matching.
joes tube lore is making for a very interesting read! i think i`m going to be having a lot of fun experimenting here with different tubes.
i`ve got to say too......i`m having the time of my life listening to different tubes. this being my very first tube amp! i`m impressed at all the different qualities each tube brings to the amp and all the fine tuning that can be achieved. the amp sounded good enough with the standard tubes that came with it but the amp was secondhand and the tubes were very noisy!
also when the psvane tubes were breaking in i was shaking my head in disbelief in the 1st 5 to 10 hours! the sound changed quite a few times! everytime sounded good with the exception of a couple of times the sound seemed to come out of complete darkness and that blew my mind! wish i could get that particular sound back! but thats not really a complaint as i love what i`m hearing now |
another thing i must add......i seem to sit there now listening to music with a big stupid grin on my face most of the time! what a way to escape the stresses and strifes in this life! |
another quick update and the best one yet! when i was tube rolling i tried the brimars and the rca vt231 together. i had the brimars in v1 and v4 and the rca`s in v2 and v3 on my amp. they sounded pretty awful! well i didnt realise that swapping them around would bring a massive difference! this weekend i put the brimars in v2 and v3 and i put the rca`s in v1 and v4. wow the sound is so clear!!! i wish i discovered this when i first tried them. i`ve lost the warmth i had with the brimar/sylvania pairing but now i can see much further into recordings. all the subtle sounds that were hardly noticable are now much more prominent. recordings are very clear sounding and tonally more realistic. the soundstage is solid and believable. the detail is amazing! the bass is very full, detailed and has this extra punch. my amp sounds completely different now! i can`t believe how much clearer the overall sound is. i heard the most subtle details that i`ve never heard before on david gilmours cd on an island this weekend just gone and the sound effects throughout his cd are just incredible! listening to adeles cd 21 the 1st 2 tracks now have so much drive. the seperation of individuals is just awesome too. i could still do with more depth to the soundstage though. i really am sure it`s the psvanes restricting the depth of the soundstage but i must say, changing the brimars and rca`s around have hugely widened the soundstage though. for the first time the sound goes way beyond the width of the speakers which i have to admit messed with my head at first! anyone that has this amp really ought to try out the brimar/ rca vt231 combination. this is seriously good stuff! |
hiya mikirob, i`ve had those on my mind too! i`ve liked the ehkt88`s in there but when i bought them i`d only done limited research into all the tubes. i`m doing a much more in depth research now. i ordered a matched pair of ge5751 black plate d getter 1950`s tubes today. once they`re sorted i`ll start researching the kt88`s. i wont rush my research like i did when i first got the amp. this has been such a fantastic learning curve researching all these tubes and reading other peoples experiences with different tubes. i still can`t get over the differences made by swapping the brimar/rca vt231 combination. i honestly didn`t think there`d be any difference at all by swapping them around in v1 v2 v3 v4 positions. that was an eye opener for me! all my neighbours were out earlier today so i was able to crank the volume up! i`m endlessly impressed by what i hear now. the only thing i think this amp lacks now is soundstage depth and i`d like to inject a little warmth into it. not much just a little. |
i ordered a pair of ge5751wa black plate d getter tubes and a matched quad set of shuguang black treasure kt88-z`s. the ge`s are coming from china and the black treasure are coming from hong kong so i guess i`ll have a bit of a wait.
i`m excited to know how these will fair along with the brimar 6sn7gty cv1988/rca vt231`s combination. the brimar/vt231 combination have so far opened up the sound extremely on my system. at some point in the future i`ll be ordering the Sylvania JHS 5751WA Gold Label triple mica blackplates but i`ll have to start saving! i`ll also see how i get on with the ge5751wa`s first.
meantime, the sound is still improving on my system so i guess the brimars are still breaking in as they are nos tubes. i still can`t get over the huge difference they`ve made in my system. i`ll update next when the tubes i`ve ordered arrive. the only thing i`m not that thrilled about is the break in time for the black treasures. 300 hours!!! they`ll take forever!!! |
hiya guys these are great feedbacks and you`re all helping so much. can`t thank you all enough.
well i also ordered some jan philips 5751`s and got them this morning. of course i put them in straight away!
ok my initial impressions so far and also keeping in mind that these are nos tubes so they will need breaking in. i really like them. they have an added warmth and are just as detailed as the psvane 12ax7t`s. i seem to have lost a little soundstage width but gained some depth. also i`ve lost the added punch in the bass that the psvanes had but the bass is still very seductive, deep and pleasing. listening to adeles cd her voice still has that natural dryness but with these tubes there`s an added warmth and to me there seems more detail and depth to her voice. in the soundstage there is also more precision than the psvanes but less seperation due the soundstage not being as wide but i`m not talking by much. i do have one criticism though, one of my very favourite cd`s steve hillage green, some of the synth notes seems dull and less involving as does his voice on a couple of tracks. i use this cd to check out the high frequencies and these tubes pass with flying colours! every bit as pleasing as the psvanes but it`s such a shame about those synthesiser note and his voice but as i`ve said, these tubes only have about 4 hours on them and they`ll more than likely open up at some stage and that`s going to make this experiment much more interesting! so far if i had to choose between the psvanes and the philips the psvanes would just about edge it so lets see what happens when the philips tubes open up!
the tubes i`m currently waiting on now are the ge tubes, sylvania 5751`s and the kt88-z treasure tubes. this is all getting so interesting. i`ll keep you all posted at every stage. i have to say too that i bought the jan philips 5751 tubes from a uk vendor and ordered them over the phone. this guy was fantastic and very knowledgable about tubes in general. we spent the best part of an hour discussing tubes and being given all kinds of advice. i`m having the time of my life even though this is sucking the hell out of my finances!!! you gets what you pays for i think! more to come soon guys :) |
oh and one other thing i`d like to mention about the jan philips 5751`s, they run silently with no signs of being microphonic. |
just another quickie update. with just 7 hours on the jan philips tubes and things have changed! wow and i mean WOW! everything sounds much clearer, as if they didn`t sound clear enough before! the extra clarity makes each instrument sound as if they are in their own spot within the soundstage and you get the sensation that you can see right into the recording. i don`t hear any extra information on the cd`s but the information that is there is far more pronounced and set naturally into the soundstage. just listened to dave gilmours on an island cd and this is by far the best i have heard this cd. throughout the cd his guitar has the most amazing tones that have real bite. i have to say this is a damned good recording that i`m totally addicted to listening to! no doubt there`ll be more to come soon. |
hiya all i need a little info.....ok i have the ge 5751`s on order. the ones i`m getting have d getters. i`ve noticed other ge 5751`s have square getters. does anyone know if there`s any difference in sound between these 2?
i have about 30 hours now on the jan philips 5751`s and they`ve opened up very nicely. i have bass in spades now and voices seem much more natural and very well intergrated into the soundstage. i just love the bass i hear although i doubt the neighbours agree on that one!!!
mikirob i really can`t wait to hear the black treasure kt88-z`s. if my system sounds this good now then god only knows what the black treasures will bring to the table! also i just can`t wait to get the ge 5751`s. the jan philips tubes alone are pretty amazing sounding. also i don`t want to take anything away from the psvanes 12ax7-t`s. they are awesome sounding tubes. i reckon its just peoples taste as to what they`ll prefer rather than what sounds better. i`ll be trying the psvanes again with the black treasure kt88`s as i`ve heard they`re a very good match that helps bring out the best in the black treasures.
i`ve also got my eye on another pair of brimar 6sn7gty/cv1988 tubes. i`d say they`re the best tubes i have in my amplifier at this moment and i just love the tones it brings and all the openess. incredible tubes! |
12AX7E EI ELITE NOS just received these tubes today. i bought these because they were made with the exact tooling that the telefunken 12ax7`s were made with. these have been the cheapest tubes purchased yet retailing at £39.00.
you have to hear the separation of instruments in the soundstage to believe it! absolutely stunning! all instruments are rich and smooth in tone. the highs are very smooth. the detail is second to none. the noise floor has been lowered significantly over all the other 12ax7 and also the jan philips 5751`s. absolutely silent back grounds! everything seems to have extra texture. i have to say the ge 5751`s are going to have to be pretty special to beat this! at this point in time i really can`t see these being bettered! but we`ll see. i`ve read that these ei elite tubes become microphonic after so many months of use. we`ll have to wait on that one. at this moment they`re very quiet and i pray they stay that way.
so far these tubes are of amazing sound quality. i know i`ve said that so far all the tubes i`ve listened to are more a matter of taste to the listener rather than one being better than the other. well i make an exception to that here!
the punch and depth of bass is shocking! it`s like taking one to the guts from mike tyson!!! even if these tubes lasted just a year i`ll be more than happy to buy another set. the sound is just incredible and i have to say they leave the others in the dust and the amazing thing about that is all the other tubes really don`t sound bad at all. in fact they all sound excellent in their own right but these are special!!! |
i forgot to mention, if 3 dimentional soundstages are your thing then these are the tubes for you! extremely holographic! a huge wide and deep soundstage. the depth is incredible and real! this is something i just love and what i`m trying to achieve out of this system. bring on the black treasures kt88-z`s! also i`m sitting here at my computer typing this and listening to music. i`m very off axis to the soundstage and it`s rock solid and still centralised between the speakers. amazing stuff! |
hiya larryi,
i`ve had a chance to have a proper listen to the ei elites. played my usual cd`s dave gilmour on an island, adele 21, steve hillage green and also had a listen to pink floyds remastered wish you were here. i got the tubes this morning so i had to listen at more conservative levels but this evening i was able to crank the volume up a little to more decent levels that i usually play at. all i can say is wow!!! i know i hark on about hearing more things that i`ve never heard before but this is startling! at the beginning of dave gilmours track "then i close my eyes", there`s sound effects that sounds like someone walking up to a car and opening and closing the car door then walking back. it`s a brilliant sound effect but with these tubes i also hear a group of people talking. i`ve never heard that on any other of the tube combinations i`ve had so far. and what i really like is there is a warmth and smoothness to the whole range of sounds as well as the extra clarity. the weight of everything is just right. this midband is just superb. there`s decent soundstage height too. dave gilmour is no longer 4ft tall!!! the bottom end is outrageous! bass goes lower than whale poo now! there`s a really gorgeous warmth to the bass too and there`s texture not only to bass notes but everything at every frequency. listening to steve hillages cd green has high frequencies like i`ve never heard before. this cd is amazing to check your high frequencies and it`s not a half bad recording considering it came out in 1978 i think. synthesiser notes just hang in their own space in the soundstage. this cd is so magical sounding. some of adeles tracks have such amazing bass drive. there`s a lot of piano work going on in her cd and the weight of each key is just perfect. these tubes appear to have brought extended highs and lows to the table with everything in between just right. i`ll go as far to say the soundstage is freaky! my brain computes that all the artists are there right in front of you in their own space but my eyes can`t see them. i`m also wondering if and how the sound might change as the tubes break in. i keep thinking that the sound just can`t get any better. that`s what i thought using the psvanes and then the jan philips 5751`s! and now using these ei elites it has completely changed the sound that comes out of my speakers. these tubes have been an upgrade! and a huge one! i still have those ge 5751wa`s on their way and they`re really supposed to be something quite special. also the black treasure kt88-z tubes are really supposed to be something that are currently on their way through the post to me.
i have to say too that not only is the amp a real cracker but the speakers i have are really something too! every change i`ve made, this combination lets that change be heard good or bad. mostly mindblowing in this case! the speakers are quad 12L2`s and they are real chameleons. they change sound with every change i make. amazing!
if i ever come across the telefunkens at a decent price i may well go for them. i think my tube rolling spending spree better come to an end before i have to sell the furniture to pay the bills! the journey to where i am soundwise on my system has been probably the most fun i`ve ever had! i so wish i`d discovered tube amplifiers years ago. i`ve been missing so much! and i still have a little tube rolling to do when the new ones get here too. i cannot imagine the sound getting any better! but as i say......i`ve said that one before! more than once! |
hiya mikirob, it`s a hell of an experience. i wish i could say i achieved it by skill but really it was pure luck! the only thing now is i hope the kt88-z`s add further improvements rather than being too much of a good thing. they must be due any day now too |
update for the ei elites....
ok one of them (the right side) has turned very slightly microphonic but it`s very slight and not really noticeable and certainly doesn`t affect the performance.
and now for the good stuff! i have about 45 hours on them now and i can`t believe i`m saying this but the sound has improved immensely! the punchy deep bass has turned into a punchy deeper bass with slam when required! the warmth in the bass is just superb. the bass is as seductive as you can get!
the noise floor is even lower! on dave gilmours cd on the track "a pocket full of stones", when he first starts singing there is just his voice accompanied by a piano. both the voice and piano come out of nothingness, blackness, darkness i dunno how to describe it but it`s amazing! you can hear a pin drop. thats the effect it gives you.
the highs are just as high but have more presence as does the midband. voices now sound just a tad more forward than what they were and are just as detailed and deep. by that i mean more depth to the voice in the soundstage.
and on to the soundstage!i said before when i installed the tubes that i initially found the soundstage freaky. i meant that in a very good positive way. well now the soundstage is super freaky!!! much more depth, much more seperation, much more 3 dimentional, more expression and amazing presence and air around that presence. voices sound closer to me in the soundstage. this must have a lot to do with how the ei elites interact with the brimar 6sn7gty/cv1988 and the rca grey glass vt231`s in this amplifier. it is just pure magic.
there`s still no sign of my black treasure kt88-z`s or the ge 5751`s yet. i can`t wait to get them now to see how they fair in this amp. so there`ll be more to come soon :)
i don`t know where these tubes stand in the 12ax7 world of tubes but in this amp they`re incredible |
hiya guys,
i`m still waiting on those tubes though i got a matched pair of sylvania 1970`s grey plate disc getter 5751`s through the post. i bought them because they were very cheap and have nothing to lose as they were cheap.
the sylvania`s for the price are very respectable. nice and clear, nice bass and lots of detail. they`re not in the same league as the others i`ve tried (12ax7`s and 5751`s) but i wouldn`t say they`re that far behind. they`re a used pair so no breaking in has been required but i have let them warm up a couple of hours. the sound compared to the ei elites is thinner all round but again i don`t want people to think they`re rubbish. far from it! they still have a very nicely weighted sound, just not as weighty as the others.
it`s driving me nuts waiting for the ge 5751`s and the black treasure kt88-z`s. i was lead to believe the black treasures were posted on the 18th but i`ve found out they were only posted on the 29th! so i have more waiting to do! grrrrr lol. the ge 5751`s should be here anytime now.......hopefully!!! |
i just googled the thor ta1000 pre amp. wow! very nice looking! and very unusual. i`ll let you know straight away when the tubes arrive i`ll do an initial review of the tubes and then a more in depth review when they have more hours on them and when i can give them a good prolonged listen. you might want to think about the telefunken 12ax7 tubes. the ei elites are apparently based on the telefunkens and made with the same tools that made the telefunkens. i have to say that so far the ei elite 12ax7`s have blown everything else i`ve tried out of the water! a truly stunning sound! just dubious about them turning microphonic after a few months use. so far they`re quiet. one is just very slightly microphonic and i do mean its hardly noticeable. the ei elites are very holographic and very 3 dimentional and the depth of sound and tones has to be heard to be believed. a word of warning though......what works in my amp may sound different in yours but i guess this is where the fun lies in finding what works in your system. so far i`ve been extremely lucky finding what works in my system. definately not skill! i`d hardly call myself skilled as this is my very first tube amp. i hope this helps. more to come very soon hopefully. |
Mcpherson
hiya yes the ge`s are d getters triple mica black plates (the really good ones). i`m waiting to pounce on the postman (not literally!) this morning. i`m so hoping he has at least one package for me! i also ordered the telefunken 12ax7 smooth plates yesterday. should get those tomorrow. i want to see if there`s any difference in the sound quality compared to the ei elite 12ax7`s. thats gonna be interesting!
unfortunately i have no experience with the phillips miniwatt 12at7`s as my amplifier doesn`t accept those types. i`m kinda glad too! this tube rolling is getting expensive! i really musn`t order any more! i`ve already built up a small collection of 12ax7`s and 5751`s. i must say i`ve not heard any lousy sounding tubes out of any of them. they all bring something unique to the sound of my amplifier but i will say the ei elites are truly stunning!
we`re both in the same boat as newbies to tubes! i was kind of the same, i went from a denon reciever straight to a tube amp and i know exactly what you meant saying you were cracking up when listening to the commodores. i`ve been exactly the same with some of my cd`s too. i just cannot wipe this stupid grin off my face when i listen to a cd! i feel like the cat that got the cream!
the funny thing is i was listening to music on youtube through headphones on my computer and listened to some of the tracks off that dave gilmour cd on an island. i actually heard more detail through the headphones and they`re only cheapies too but it`s made me think that all that extra detail maybe is to come when i get all these other tubes i`ve ordered but i`ll have to wait and see. once i`m satisfied with the sound in all this mixing and matching i`ll just concentrate on those certain tubes i`ll be using and get spares. all the other tubes i`ll probably sell but i`ll hold onto them maybe a few years to see if they go up in price and hopefully make some extra money.
i`m really excited at the prospect of getting those telefunkens. i got them at a fantastic price off ebay last night. they`re supposed to be the best.
i have to ask.....did the cap upgrades make a difference. i`m thinking of doing the same for my amplifier using mundorf silver/oil caps in the pre amp stage. i`ll be starting a new thread on this topic once i`m happy with the tube arrangements and sound. i bet that`ll be a very interesting topic. keep your eyes peeled for that one. i`, also thinking of upgrading the speaker cables at some point to chord epic cables but that might be some time off yet as those cables are pretty expensive! |
Xti16 stop right there!!!!!! lol. i can`t hear you!!! i kind of had a little delve into the gecs, wow! very expensive! but i bet they sound amazing! let me know what they`re like when you get them it`ll be very interesting. not heard of the EATS, i`ll do a little research into them and the tesla KT88`s. i was thinking of those psvane KT88-t`s too. i`m just looking around my room to see if there`s anything i can sell lol i can see me ending up sitting on a wooden box listening to the only bit of furniture i have left lol. funny enough i do have plenty to sell that will make a good bit of money but my sensible side tells me to keep the money for a rainy day, but then i have this little devil on my shoulder poking me in the ears until i give in!
just a very quick update on those sylvania 5751`s in there currently..... they sound really nice. nice and clear and a really nice focused soundstage. listening to them right now with the volume cranked up a little louder than usual. there`s nothing really lacking in them anywhere. they have a nice punch to them too but not the slam that the ei elites gave me. but there`s lovely detail all through the frequency extremes. damned good considering i only paid $18 for the pair. stunning bargain! |
need some advice. there`s a pair of SYLVANIA JHS 5751 BLACK PLATE TUBES triple mica square getters for sale fairly cheap. are these good tubes to fo for? they don`t have gold pins, just normal ones. thanks guys |
Xti16 thank u so much for that info thats invaluable. i really will have to draw the line at the treasure tubes because of the expense. i did some digging for info on decent kt88`s yeaterday and the ones you have are a fantastic collection and i can only imagine how much enjoyment you get from all the different sounds available to you. i`m so impressed by all the different sounds i get with all these tubes i have too. it`s like a whole new world has opened up to me and i`m just as impressed with all the advice i`ve had from the tube amplifier community and i`m so pleased to be part of that.
i completely agree with you about the fact that there are really no bad sounding tubes and i can also say that what doesn`t work in my amp will work in others sound wise. but the beautiful truth so far is i haven`t really come across anything that hasn`t worked decently in my amp apart from when i switched positions of the brimar cv1988/rca vt231 6sn7 tubes but that was literally down to just switching positions.
gonna cut this short now, i just got the telefunken 12ax7`s through the post! i`m like a kid with a new toy lol. i`ll post a review of these later today guys and thankies again Xti16 for that fantastic info. chat later guys |
i cannot contain myself here!!! i put the telefunkens straight in the amp and to my sheer luck i heard my neighbour that lives below me going out! talk about a stroke of luck! and these tubes? WOW WOW WOW!!! so far these are the kiddies! i put my usual fav cd on dave gilmour. more twang to his guitar, more detail, the bass growls, gorgeous tones and to my sheer surprise an even lower noise floor. i can see why these are considered as some of the very best of 12ax7`s. this sound stage just keeps getting freakier and freakier! the seperation is just spot on! deadly accurate. if these tubes can be likened to the armed forces then these are the special air service of the tube world lol. truly elite!!! the ei elites are very very similar, it`s just that these telefunkens go that extra mile and definately worth the expense and i gotta say i got an amazing bargain. i got these very cheap compared to the prices i`ve seen them go for. god only knows how the ge 5751`s are going to stand up to these! the ge`s really are going to have to go some to beat the sound of the telefunkens......thats if they ever get here!!! oh did i mention i got the bass slam back again! the ei elites and telefunkens draw level when it comes to bass slam, i can`t hear any difference here. oh man someone please wipe this smile off my face lol my face seems to be stuck in smile mode lol. i simply cannot believe the sound coming out of my speakers! Mcpherson put these on your shopping list. these are amazing! |
oh and guys these are the least bit microphonic. extremely silent. awesome! |
ok the telefunkens i have are the ecc83 smooth long plates with halo getters. no idea what year they are and they have the diamond stamp underneath. i did look into those ecc803s but they were pretty much out of my price range, but yes i`ve read that they are the best ones to go for, but i think the telefunken ecc83 are more than good enough. the ecc803s are much harder to find too. there`s a pair on ebay i`m watching just to see how much they go for. the difference in sound from the smooth plates and ribbed plates are supposed to be.....smooth plates = accurate sounding, ribbed plates = warm sounding. i opted for the smooth plates because the black treasure kt88-z`s that i have on order are warm sounding and i don`t want an overly warm sound from my amplifier. the sound i`m getting at the moment is accurate with a hint of warmth which i`m loving.
i had more of a listen earlier. listened to adele and also steve hillage "green". adeles voice sounds very natural. her voice has a natural dryness which the telefunkens preserve perfectly and some of her tracks have amazing bass drive. those tracks are extremely pleasing to listen too as i`m sure my neighbours can vouch for the bass!!!
listening to steve hillages green cd is just amazing. the highs are so extended. more so than the ei elites! there`s only one track on green that i don`t really like that much (too hippyish lol) but at the end of the track the last 30 to 40 seconds there are some mindblowing high frequency sounds, well these telefunkens produce these highs with such beauty and accuracy. it literally makes your eyes widen in sheer surprise and awe! these high frequency synthesiser notes hang amazingly in the soundstage and actually move around and these tubes make it so easy to follow. i think magical is the word i`m looking for.
onto dave gilmours cd on an island. on this disc he wrote a song called smile, a very poignant song about loved ones lost. without going into it i lost family members between 2005 and 2007 as well as having to have my dog put to sleep. these tubes bring out all the emotion and i couldn`t help but blub big time! this is probably the most beautiful track i know on any cd with beautiful lyrics that will help anyone who`s been bereaved come to terms with their lost ones. thank you mr gilmour for that! my favourite track on this cd is the very last track called "where we start", and oh my god the guitar tones are just so seductive now and to die for!!! i just cannot stop listening to this track and i bet the neighbours know every last second of this track lol. the sound effects all the way through this cd are just so clever and amazing to listen to. i recommend this cd to all. i think it`s his best work ever but thats my opinion and i must admit i have emotional ties to this cd.
in a way, as much fun as this has been with tube rolling i`m so looking forward to concentrating on the music. thats not far away now. i am a little wound up with the length of time i`ve had to wait for the ge 5751`s and the black treasure kt88-z`s but i`m sure the wait will be worth it. (i gotta learn to be patient lol)
the ecc83`s that i have here are more than good enough! |
god there`s always something i fotget to add which is always important too lol. the noise floor. it`s lower on these tubes than the ei elites which is low enough as it is. it makes for a super impressive listen. hard to describe too. it`s like notes are produced from darkness. this is an aspect that i just love. it`s also the very reason i`ve ordered the black treasure kt88-z`s. these are supposed to have that in spades! another reason why i`m wound up with all the waiting lol. i did warn my postman earlier when signing for the telefunkens lol. told him not to deliver anymore post unless he has my parcels lol. he thinks i was joking!!! muwaaaah ha ha ha lol |
a quickie update, i contacted the shop in hong kong about my kt88-z`s. they should be here next tuesday. customs have my tubes and have just released them. they had them ages too grrrr! no sign of my ge 5751`s though but to be fair it states in their advert it`ll take 20 to 25 days so hopefully they`ll be here next week too |
hiya mikirob, funny you should say that but before i bought any of the hifi i did a massive amount of research on amplifiers, cd players, speakers, interconnects and speaker wires. the biggest gamble for me was the amplifier. as much as i read on the yaqin mc100b i still couldn`t be 100% sure it was going to be a goodun being so cheap, but there were so many good write ups i decided to take a gamble. if it turned out to be rubbish at least i could re-sell it for roughly the same price as it was secondhand. in a way i think it was good that the tubes were worn and needed replacing. at first i thought i`d made a major mistake because on first power up the pops and crackles coming out of the speakers made me think it was faulty. i decided to get a pair of the psvane 12ax7`s which transformed the sound and it was then i really started researching all the tubes. i then read about grant fidelity and chose to buy his matched psvane 12ax7`s and yes there was a small difference in sound. i then started researching good places to buy tubes from. all the tubes have been from reputed good sellers with the exception of one set and thats the ge 5751`s that i`m currently waiting on. the kt88-z`s are from a good seller in hong kong and because of the length of time it`s taken i sent them a kind of angry email. they got back to me within a couple of hours and they spent that couple of hours investigating exactly where they are. they also sent proof that they were sent on the day they said they were sent. it`s the customs here in my country is where the hold up has been but thankfully they`ve now been released so i`ll get them this week. it`s just bad luck that we now have snow to contend with! i also had a good chat with karl at karltones in my country. what a great guy he is. he spent almost an hour chatting on the phone giving me all kinds of advice and recommendations. i asked him for advice on the telefunkens and ge 5751`s and recommended both even though he stocked neither but i did buy the jan philips 5751`s off him for a nice cheap price. i make sure i always check out the places i`ve bought the tubes off. i remember reading aricles about being weary where you buy tubes off and at the prices they go for i didn`t want to make any mistakes or at leasr cut down on the mistakes. so far it`s all been good. i wont be buying anymore tubes now once i`ve got the kt88-z`s and the ge 5751`s. i think all the tubes i have are more than good enough quality and as for the yaqin amplifier......i`m stunned! i can`t believe how that amplifier has reacted to all the tube changes i`ve made. i also want to pay tribute to all the rest of the equipment i own too. i think the biggest surprise are the speakers. very cheap and they let me hear all the changes i`ve made not only with the tubes but the wires too. i hope and pray the kt88-z`s will be the last piece of this very special jigsaw. i hope anyone else with this yaqin amplifier reads this and the tube selections i`ve made. even as the sound stands now i can imagine i`ll have to spend an exceedingly much larger amount of money to beat this sound. this amplifier is very special indeed. it actually makes me wonder weather or not to bother changing any capacitors in the amp such is the level and quality of sound but we`ll see. i intend to start a new thread on this very subject once i get the tubes i`m waiting on and once they`re run in. i wholeheartedly agree with you on being careful where you buy the tubes from and i really hope others take note of this too |
i did some rolling to and forth between the ei elites and the telefunkens today. there really isn`t much if anything between them. the telefunkens definately have a wider soundstage. the sound seems to go beyond the speakers which i really like but in pretty much all other area`s i couldn`t really tell the difference. the ei elites, one side is slightly microphonic but again it doesn`t really effect the sound performance at all.
i have my pioneer bluray player plumbed into the amplifier and watched shrek earlier. the sound was really good. music scores in the film sound excellent and voices throughout the film sound very natural. of course there`s no explosions or the like in this film so i can`t comment on stuff like that plus i have to think of the neighbours! music on this film certainly has some punch though!
by the way i`m from the uk and had our first snow fall today! i`m praying it stays for at least some of the week so i don`t have to go to work lol more listening time for me hopefully! |
i have a bus route that goes straight past where i live and the road is uneven a little. when the bus goes over the uneveness my flat shudders! one of the tubes picks this up but its onlt very slight and you have to be pretty close to the speaker to hear it. it`s like the tube is vibrating. i tell you something that helps in this case is using sorbothane feet under the amp but my amplifier is pretty heavy (30 kilo`s) and i think i`ll need to purchase extra sorbothane feet. they`re very cheap and you can get them off ebay. i have them under my cd player and my bluray player too. amazingly they made a difference to the picture on my bluray player. don`t ask me how but the picture is sharper. i thought it was me but everyone thats been around here has noticed the difference too! they helped under my cd player too with the soundstage. it just seems more focused. not bad for a cheap upgrade! if i didn`t have them under the amplifier i`m pretty sure it`d be a nightmare to listen to. not sure if those tube dampers work. i might give them a go unless anyone reading this can advise otherwise. |
Mcpherson please feel free to ask any question you wish ok. if i can`t help then i`m very sure others will like reynolds for instance. like you i`m a newbie to tubes aswell so any information is valuable. tubes are expensive enough without making costly mistakes. all the tubes in my amplifier are in there for a reason. i`ve done endless research on each tube as to what their sound characteristics are and kind of gambled buying them. i`ve been very lucky so far in my mixing and matching and each tube i`ve added has enhanced the sound out of my amplifier. my treasure tubes kt88-z`s look like being delayed further now because of this snow as probably will the ge 5751`s aswell :( i`m dying to fit them all in!!! |
hi all,
the ge 5751`s turned up this morning! i gave them a good listen. very clear sounding as if the sound has been polished. very nice sounding bass, quite deep and punchy. there`s not a world of difference between these and the telefunkens. the soundstage is a bit shallower though. listening to dave gilmours guitar on the track "where we begin" is the best tone i`ve yet heard. tone wise these are the best of all the 12ax7 and 5751 tubes BUT i must admit i prefer the depth of the soundstage i get with the telefunkens so it`ll be those that will grace my amplifier from now on! they give me everything i`ve been looking for.
the treasure tubes still haven`t been delivered but they are in the country now. the delays are because of the big freeze thats happening in the united kingdmom and europe so i still have those to listen to yet and i will tube roll the 12ax7`s and 5751`s to see what works best.
i discovered an amazing recording last night too! k.t. tunstalls "eye to the telescope" cd is just about as holographic as you`re ever going to hear. the depth in the soundstage is mindblowing! if you want to show off how good your system images then try this cd, plus she has a dead sexy voice! |
hi all
i did some extended listening yesterday evening at a much more decent sound level. i found the ge 5751`s a little too warm for my set up. all the detail is there just too warm. my amp is already on the warm side so i guess the ge`s were too much for it. they`re a little noisy too with pops and crackles coming out of the speakers until they`ve warmed up so i`m definately sticking to the telefunkens for now. i will try them again once i get the treasure kt88`s and all the other tubes to see what gives me the best sound.
Mcpherson the k.t. tunstall cd is a very very good recording indeed. it`s the best cd i`ve heard so far and thats saying something! i thought dave gilmours cd was good if not the best but k.t. tunstalls is even better! when i get the treasure kt88`s i`ll have another listen to the ge 5751`s and if they`re still not suitable we can do a deal if you like ok. i got them for $60 but because they`re a little noisy i won`t be asking the same as what i bought them for so at least you`ll be able to see if they`re more suited to your set up without breaking the bank. i thought about your set up when i was listening to them yesterday evening. my amps just too warm to get the magic out of the ge`s.
talking of those kt88 treasure tubes i can`t wait to get them. not looking forward to the lengthy breaking in though but i`m sure they`ll be fun all the same. i`ll do a more in depth review of them too when i first install them right the way through to be broken in. there`s reviews out there for them but nothing much in the way of in depth reviews, so keep dropping by on this thread there`s much more to come guys! |
just listened to "beautiful" by kari jobe. wow!!! what an amazing voice! |
treasure tubes kt88-z
got `em!!! i got them this morning. i fitted them and left them for 20 minutes or so then set the bias. left them another 20 or so minutes then checked the bias again and then to the good stuff! from the off these are an upgrade! very open sounding. i can already hear the top end is extended. my 1st and so far only track i`ve listened to is k.t. tunstall silent sea off the eye to the telescope cd. her closely mic`d voice sounds just incredible and incredibly real! the weight and texture to her voice is just right and mind boggling! she`s right there in front of me. soooo much detail in her voice and the sharp intake of breath you hear in between her lines! i couldn`t help listening to this over and over! the bass is deep, detailed, darker, warmer and textured. acoustic guitars have realistic tone, weight and that zing that acoustic guitars have. you can hear each string being plucked. the noise floor is extremely low on these and the back ground is silent. after installing these, the first thing i noticed was the lack of low level buzz coming from my speakers. if i put my ear up to the speakers i get a just about audible deep hum.
the soundstage is pin point accurate and the seperation of the musicians is very freaky. lots of air between the musicians! the soundstage is less deep but by no means flat. it`s much easier to get that sense that the drums are behind the singer. you also feel you can almost see the performers. you can also hear k.t. tunstals lips close and open as she`s singing and her voice actually sounds like it`s originating from her throat. by the way her voice on this track will leave you needing a cold shower!!!
the most amazing thing here is i have about another 298 hours to go before they`re broken in! and the sound is said to improve! wow! i`m off to do some more listening to my other favourite cd`s. my plan now is to fully break in these tubes then do one last tube roll between all the 12ax7`s and 5751`s before i make my final choice of tubes for this amp and system. so far i have to tell you i`m amazed at this sound coming from my speakers. more to come later today guys. this is just the initial "straight out of the box" review |
another update.....
i had the telefunkens in this mix and and the sound was amazing, extremely clear, forward, immediate, weighty with a hint of warmth, pretty much like someones turned the main light on and you can see everything clearly and solidly.
well i had an idea. i don`t mean to tube roll this early on in the experiment but i read somewhere that the psvane 12ax7-t`s have a synergy with the kt88-z`s, so i swapped them out. in went the grant fidelity matched 12ax7`s. now it`s like someone switched off the main lights, lit several candles so you can still see all the detail but with more shading and more darkness in between, then lit a log fire! WOW! on a seduction level i`d score this mix as a 20 out of 10!!! you get all the detail but accompanied by the sexiest warmth ever! the forwardness has gone and replaced by naturalness with a sexy warmth. the bass is deep, detailed, punchy, slammy when needed, textured and all accompanied by a sexy warmth. voices are just plain sexy!!! the highs are sweet and clear and extended. the bottom end is extended too and accurate. it`s accurate all the way through the frequencies. there`s an amazing dark pleasing background that allows instruments to work their magic on you out of thin air. seperation in the soundstage is 1st class. all this with not quite 5 hours on the tubes! i`m in lurve already and i think i still have heaven to come! these tubes work extremely well together and so far it`s a matter of taste between the psvanes and telefunkens. but saying that, there`s a very long way to go and all tubes are going to get their chance to do their thing once the kt88`s are fully broken in but the psvane 12ax7-t`s will be staying in for the duration of the break in. this is a jaw dropping set of tubes gracing my amplifier so far! |
mikirob, the ge`s are definately not right. i put them in when i tried out the telefunkens. when i switched the amplifier on it sounded like distant thunder rumbling. i put on a cd and again i got that distant thunder sound so i took them out. they sounded really nice but that rumbling left me feeling a little uncomfortable. i had the same thing when i had the electro harmonix kt88`s in my amplifier too with the ge`s. i actually did think it was thunder in the distance! |
i just hope i have enough funds in the bank to get them! but yes i`ll certainly let you know if i decide to part with them if they`re not suited in my system. it`s going to be a thrilling time once the treasures have broken in. 242 hours to go!!! and counting! how sad am i!!! |
hiya reynolds,
unfortunately the telefunkens are seconds so i guess they`re broken in plus i have about 50 hours on them. they are the smooth plates. i wish there was someone local to me to get tubes off or to swap. i`ll break in the kt88`s then do some proper evaluations of all the 12ax7`s and 5751`s. i`m really excited at that prospect! i only swapped the telefunkens yesterday because everything sounded a little too forward for my ears. i`m very sure the changes will be a plenty before the kt88`s are broken in.
things have changed quite dramatically since yesterday with the kt88`s aswell. everything sounds a lot more solid all round. the sound seems darker with very deep bass. voices also seem to have created more atmosphere too and are even clearer. there`s a ton of detail too. the soundstage is very large and very solid. the best imaging i`ve heard yet. if they stayed sounding the same as they are now i`ll be a happy man but i`m currently on just 28 hours so there`s still quite a journey with these to come. i`m loving the bass i`m hearing! i`m hoping i`ll have about 150+ hours on them by next sunday. it`s funny but i keep thinking the sound couldn`t possibly get any better and then it goes and gets better! amazing! the worst i`ve heard these kt88-z`s was last night. voices sounded a little shut in but that didn`t make them sound bad though. they sound very open today. some of the sounds i`ve heard are also hard to describe aswell. i told my friend the kt88`s turned up yesterday and he`s straining at the leesh to come around for a listen but i`ve told him to wait a couple of weeks. he had a cheap valve amplifier many many years ago and loved it. i think i`ve stirred his passion up again! |
i just had a rare stroke of luck! it`s sunday evening here, and all my neighbours are out! i put on dave gilmours cd on an island and played it above my normal listening levels and as a real bonus, for the whole of the cd not even a car drove past let alone a bus! how amazing are these kt88-z`s!!! i`ve just been blown away by them! the bass is tremendous and so beautifully rounded. on one track ("take a breath") the bass growled. the atmosphere on each song is amazing! the tones dave gilmour gets out of his guitars are pure magic. my favourite tracks on this cd are the last 3 tracks "smile" "a pocket full of stones" and "where we start" are in a different league through these tubes. closely mic`d voices through this system are scarily real!!! on "a pocket full of stones", the start of the track is just gilmours voice accompanied by a piano, this sounds truly haunting now. incredible amounts of atmosphere and emotion and he sounds so isolated. his voice fills the soundstage and you can pin point the location of his voice. on the last track "where we start" his guitar has a smooth warm feel and he has that amazing ability on certain notes where needed to get that sheen that hits the spot with all of us and these kt88`s pull that off with such ease. there`s not only massive amounts of information on a disc that these tubes can extract but also massive amounts of information within the notes being played themselves. you seem to get it all, texture and tone!
on saturday i likened listening to these tubes to having the main lights off, candles on with a warm fire glowing, well i stand by that even more so now. it`s like watching a dark scene on a bluray disc through a stunning television being able to pick out all of the pleasing brighter detail while still being able to see all the various darker details and shades with the greatest of ease. these are remarkable tubes, and to think they`re only 35 hours old!!! how much better are these gonna get???!!! |
thats fantastic advice guys. going to the bank tomorrow to see if i have enough funds to buy them. the treasure kt88 tubes are breaking in quite nicely. they sounded very upfront when i first fitted them in and they`ve smoothed right out now. they still only have 52 hours on them so they still have a fair way to go yet. and i had more fun this morning with all my neighbours out again! i listened to it quite loudly! amazing sounds! |
i must start by offering my apologies! i did say the psvane tubes are staying in for the duration of the burn in process. but somethings been niggling away at me. well the treasure tubes sound has really calmed down a lot to the point of being smooth, soooo, i thought i`d put the telefunkens back in! a very good move! as it is now, they offer a truck load of detail, but they don`t sound sharp, they sound very smooth. like the psvanes they have a beautiful warmth but these telefunkens add class. it`s very hard to describle. it`s like the sound has more life to it. they seem to have more texture and more realism. more true to life sound. pity the neighbours are in now! this is crying out for more volume! |
good idea!!!
i don`t mind any kind of music though i`m not religeous, but i`ll certainly check them both out. have a listen to this dave gilmour track......you`ll see why i love it so much. amazing guitar tones! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86py0X_o2gs&feature=related |
i like francesca battistelli`s voice and fantastic song. very up beat! i like! i`ll check out kari jobe too in a while |
hiya all,
i`m drawing a line under breaking in the kt88`s. i`m really not hearing any changes in sound now. there may be changes but my ears cannot hear those differences and i`m extremely happy with what i am hearing! plus 300 hours is a lot of breaking in!!!
with that said, i tried out the jan phillips 5751`s today. very very nice sound. extremely clear, pin point soundstage. the bass is very deep and clear. there`s no added warmth at all that i can detect anywhere. these tubes make sense of complex guitar lines in the soundstage. there`s also nice depth to the soundstage too. i do prefer the extra warmth some tubes give but i wouldn`t be disappointed with these in my amplifier.
jbs and mechans, you`re dead right! i absolutely love the telefunkens. they tick so many boxes and they`re a very addictive sound. the ei elites are along the same lines as well as the psvanes. mechams are you psychic??? my investigations have lead me to the raytheon windmill getter 5751`s!!! been looking at them all day online! i can`t afford them right now but they`re on my "to get" list! as are the sylvania`s. i`ve had a load of bills come through so i`m going to have to abandon getting any expensive tubes for a good while to come. mechans, your info on the raytheons and how they sound has really stood out to me. i love strong presence in the soundstage. once i get my finances straight again i`ll be looking into those and the sylvania`s and the other odd thing is i was thinking about getting single tubes today too! spooooky!!! |
oh i forgot to mention (yet again as usual lol) i did order a pair of 12ax7`s earlier today. very cheap too! i ordered a pair of golden dragon 12ax7`s. heard some very good things about these and they`re the second cheapest tubes i`ve ordered too! i should have them within 48 hours so i`ll let you all know how they sound. |
oops need to correct a mistake! the chinese dragons are ecc83t`s the "t" standing for trustworthy |
hiya guys,
mac i`ve no experience with amperex tubes but let us know how they sound when you get them.
i`m keeping an eye open for the c9`s mechan. i thought i`d found some on ebay but they turned out to be the 12ax7b`s.
does anyone here have any knowledge/experience with mullard M8137`s? i`ve heard great things about these. i`m putting them on my shopping list when i have the money.
meanwhile i`m still enjoying the golden dragons immensely in my amplifier. i had the volume up quite high for a while yesterday. they sound wonderful and detailed. i forgot to mention the bass. the bass is amazing with lots of detail and depth and texture. i don`t feel i`m left wanting for anything. |
good info there jazzer, thats something else i`ve learned now.
i`ve found a great tube store here in the uk and the guy is so knowledgeable. karl from karltone. i`ve had a couple of very lengthy chats on the phone with him. i don`t think i`ve ever had a phone chat with a nicer person! he actually recognised and remembered my voice from our previous chat from about a month back! i`ll let you all know how the golden dragon ecc83t`s sound in my system when i get them. probably be at the weekend sometime i`d say.
in the meantime i couldn`t help myself but put the telefunkens back in my amp. i had a good listen last night. the combination of the telefunkens, the brimar 6sn7gty, rca vt231 and the black treasure kt88-z`s are simply mindblowing!!! clarity, depth, slam, punch, warmth, detail, smoothness, imaging, soundstage, realness, it`s all there! this combination picks up on the most subtle of details. i`m not going to say i`m hearing things i`ve never heard before. i will say i`m hearing it all with the greatest of ease. i listened to pink floyds wish you were here cd. welcome to the machine sounds soooo menacing now more than ever! the guitar on shine on you crazy diamond is pitch perfect and this combination of tubes draws out the pure emotion of the guitar not just on that track, but all the way through the cd. ok all of these tubes are pretty pricey, but you gets what you pays for. every cd i play now is more like a journey with this combination of tubes. there`s just 3 or 4 tubes i`ll be looking out for when i have the funds and they are telefunken ribbed plate, raytheon 5751 windmill getter tubes, sylvania 5751`s and if i can stretch far enough i might go for psvanes kt88-t`s. i`m very interested in the raytheon 5751 windmill getter tubes i have to say. |
hiya all,
i bought a pair of golden dragon 12ax7`s and finally got them this morning. these are the cheapest by far of all the tubes i have.
i can`t believe i`m going to say this but these have blown everything away! by quite a way too! the lack of noise floor is unbelievable! instruments come out of an inky black background and the imaging is explicit and very very vivid. everything has been pushed forward that comes out of my speakers by quite a way now. the height of the soundstage is natural height, the width goes way beyond the boundary of the side walls and there is an incredible natural sense of depth. but the soundstage is so different from all the rest of the tubes. the images seem to be carved out into the soundstage. the images are razor sharp too. these tubes are extremely explicit in the information they produce. you`re hearing everything in spades! the atmosphere they produce has to be heard to be believed! there`s one aspect of all this that really shocked me was the extra inner detail of every note coming out of every instrument in the soundstage. that blew my mind!!! and it gives the soundstage an extra dimention! it`s more like 4d!
when i mentioned that these tubes are explicit in the detail they drag up, don`t go thinking they`re cold sounding, they have a natural warmth and they are smooth as hell. cymbals sound just like cymbals in all their glory. the extra detail on offer from dave gilmours guitar on the track "where we begin" is nothing short of stunning sounding! extremely expressive! there`s so much more life to everything i hear and everything sounds so natural and real. there`s a natural rawness on offer that gives the sensation of the performer actually standing there in front of you and the same goes for every other instrument in the soundstage. you can pick out any instrument you like in the soundstage and follow it with the greatest of ease and that instrument will be there in it`s own spot in the sounstage with so much air around it. the seperation of instruments is truly jaw dropping! voices sound just about as realistic as you can get!
i have to say the improvement over the telefunkens is stunning and the telefunkens are excellent in their own right. these golden dragons produce a soundstage that is so different from all the other tubes i have heard and they sound so alive.
i cannot believe the difference in sound and for such little money. my system sounds spectacular! |
hiya mac i`m really not sure. at a guess i`d say mullards. the reason i say that is because i read somewhere that these golden dragons are based on the mullards, but i don`t have any experience with mullard tubes although they are on the list of "to get" tubes. i`ve been looking into mullard tubes with the blackburn codes on them. they`re supposed to be the ones to go for. mullards are supposed to have a beautiful warmth allied to great detail. these golden dragons sound like nothing i`ve heard before! |
