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Amplifier ideas with KEF Reference 1

I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on a pair of KEF reference 1's for my 10'x14' office (currently LS50's). Current electronic setup is all PS Audio (bhk monoblocks, bhk  signature preamp, directstream dac). Incredible sound, zero complaints other than the fact that the monoblocks run hot. I'm getting cooked so the whole ps audio setup is listed for sale.... Although it just may end up at home for a future 2 channel setup!

So with that background, please share ideas for a high quality system that's cool running. Budget up to $15k. I'll add that I favor the warmer side of the spectrum. I'm a bass player and like tight, fast, deep bass..... Glorious mids, and smooth highs. Current ideas to match with the  KEF Reference 1's include:

1. Bel Canto Black EX (integrated or the separates). My contact says the separates are far superior. I'm concerned this setup is too analytical. Anyone heard them?

2. Bel Canto Ref600m. Keep my directstream dac and bhk signature preamp. Probably more than good for an office!?!

3. Hegel 360 or the new forthcoming monster integrated (590)? They're not too pretty to look at but it seems like I've read about hegel and kef being matched at several audio shows. Is there a hegel house sound particularly with the KEF’s?

4. McIntosh mc611. I'll admit it.... I'm a sucker for the looks of McIntosh plus their easy listenability. I've never had ear fatigue listening to a McIntosh setup. I'd be keeping the directstream dac and bhk signature preamp for this combo. Afraid that is be giving up a lot going from the bhk monoblocks to the McIntosh with similar heat. 

5. Luxman L509x. Brand new. Supposed to be very musical and runs cool. I'd probably run with the directstream dac. 

Your thoughts / ideas are appreciated.... Especially if you've heard the recommendation with KEF reference 1's. It's all about system synergy, right!?!

thank you,
ken


keoliphant
63 responses Add your response
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
4,966 posts
 

keoliphant OP
I’ve decided to wait for the upcoming Hegel 590 integrated.


This looks better to drive those Kef’s low impedance/-phase angle with in the bass, good choice, and it’s linear not Class-D always better to me so far ("the future is not set").
More output devices and bigger power supply, bodes for better current delivery than the H360 can give, and hopefully will drive that bass of the Kef’s without becoming a bit of a tone control.

"The Hegal H590’s class A/B output is executed by 12 transistors per channel (4 more than the H360) to deliver a very specific 301wpc into 8 Ohms. Hegel’s feed-forward loop wrestles distortion in real time. The power supply inside the H590 is twice the size of that found in the H360"

Cheers George
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audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
1,621 posts
 
Ken, you should listen to the Bel Canto Black gear it does seem very interesting, personally we aren't so keen on very expensive amplifiers that digitize analog and don't play DSD but the overall reviews and features are excellent, we may contact Bel Canto and see about becoming a dealer for the Black gear as it is perfect NYC rig. 

You may also want to check out the new Anthem STR gear which is less expensive and sounds extremely good, The amp and preamp/dac are $10k and offer the superb Anthem room correction system which may make an extraordinary difference in a small room with the Kef Ref 1. Anthem pictures the gear stacked so you may be able to save space that way. 

If you are ever on the East Coast for business, we have the Ref 1 in a room with many superb contentenders including the Naim Nova which is excellent with the Ref 1, we also have the Naim 272/250Dr which sound mindblowing on the Ref 1, we also have the Anthem Separates, and the T+A gear, we also have the Micromega M150 has room correction. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
everest_audio
241 posts
 
As much as I said I was bowing out, I just want to chime in quick and thank audiotroy for being open minded about Bel Canto Black. I promise that you will not hear the digitization of analogue at all and their phono stage built in is very good as well. Bel Canto has displayed their Black gear with analogue front ends plenty of times and have always had great press about the sound quality. Bel Canto will do DSD64, but not natively. They opted for the MQA route and it does full MQA processing. You should definitely consider it for NYC. I'm not sure if there is a Bel Canto dealer in New York or not. I think it would be great for that market. Cheers.
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
1,621 posts
 
Everest they chose to do convert DSD to PCM as part of their design. Not necessarily the best way to really play DSD and just because you do MQA doesnt' mean you can't play those files back at Quad Rate DSD we do exactly that on our $35k Light Hamonic Davinci and boy does it beat standard 24/192k MQA files. 

This is one of the reasons why we thiink you really didn't experience the T+A Dac 8 DSD the absolute magic with that Dac is running everything as Quad rate DSD, a DAC like the DAC 8 gives the listener total control to play back DSD as DSD or PCM as PCM.

Personally never have been too keen on digitizing vinyl playback.

We will see about getting a sample of the Black EX as this piece might be as stated the perfect NYC apartment rig. We first tried that with Devialet and the Devialet although very impressive in many areas, never was musical enough for us to fall in love with the Devialet sound.

The new Hegel might also be a very nice contender. We have so far found real magic with the KEF's with the Naim and T+A gear. 

Everest we have one up on you on that one we are one of the very few dealers in the country to display the entire KEF line, we have Ref 1, Ref 3, Ref 5, Blades, and our Ref 3 are in a full Atmos KEF theater which rocks. 

We know that you didn't carry the higher end T+A gear which is a pitty the HV gear is amazing you might just prefer it over the Black, however, the simplicity of the Black might be very appealing to some people. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ, Dealer for KEF, T+A, Naim, etc

keoliphant OP
48 posts
 
Hegel H590 has arrived and is breaking in.

Initial impressions with KEF Reference 1's. Note that it's only been on for about 12 hours.

1. Solid midrange and powerful bass.
2. Streaming tidal and hearing far more depth/detail than ever before.
3. Treble seems a little thin (not harsh) so hoping break in will solve this.

I'm very please thus far and hoping break in will really make the system shine. Stay tuned.

Ken
keoliphant OP
48 posts
 
Forgot to mention - absolutely dead quiet!
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
Congrats, how are the KEF Reference 1 in your space (specifically the bass). Is the room acoustically treated?

Did you demo the Hegel or buy without a dem? It is hard to find it to demo in my area.
keoliphant OP
48 posts
 
No demo. I figured KEF and Hegel join forces at  so many audio shows that it wouldn't be a system synergy risk.

Small office, no acoustical treatment. Been awhile since I measured but I figure approximately 10'x14'. KEF's bear on IsoAcoustics isolation stands that sit atop a custom standing desk (X-Desk, expensive but very worth it). The desk measures 3.5'x8'. The extra desk width and depth allows the KEF's to be on the desk with no crowding of my workspace  and provides some additional speaker distance/separation.

Bass is incredible. I'm a bass player so I demand tight, fast, deep bass. Very happy thus far.
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
That is great to hear that it is working out well for you. I know how much of a pain it is to setup a small room and the additional complexity of a desk. How about a photo, your room sounds very interesting.

My room is 12 x 11 x 9 and when I put in $700 of GIK acoustic treatments(9 panels) in my office the room was transformed. I have a photo on the virtual systems.


keoliphant OP
48 posts
 
What is your current setup yyz and what prompted you to go for treatments? Do you listen at low, medium, or high volume? Most of my listening is at low volume but I crank it when no one is around!

I will try to get something posted soon.
audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy
1,621 posts
 
Keliophant, what cables and power conditoning are you using with your Hegel? Your treble thiness might be from your cabling, power, or room acoustics.

Are you using Roon? Have you tried converting PCM to DSD playback if the Hegel will allow for that?

Are you using a stock ethernet cable? We have found very noticable improvements with Wireworlds Etherent cables. 

Power cables also really matter. The new Audioquest line is really good.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
@keoliphant My current setup is rather simple, KEF LS50 + PeachTree Nova 150. Prior to the treatments the sound stage was not good, the imaging was not focused and I would get ear fatigue when I listened to certain albums, such as the Smashing Pumpkins Siamese Dream.

I was not able to listen too loud because it was just louder bad sound. After I added the treatments everything improved. It was just amazing how good the LS50 + Peachtree NOVA 150 now sounded. I am now excited to upgrade this system soon because the acoustics are rather good in this room. I am likely going to get a Paradigm Persona 3F + Anthem STR preamp with ARC3 DSP + Anthem STR amp or something else.

After the room treatments I find that I can play music much loader though most of the time it is at a moderate to low levels. My prior bad sounding recording, Siamese Dream, sounds so good now. This is one disc that I want to crank up. I also keep my room door open which helps add volume to the room.

I was recently listening to Damien and Stephan Marley albums and prior to the treatments they were almost impossible to listen to due to the heavy reggae bass, however, after the treatments they are easily listenable.

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/7605

When I get the floor stander I will also get a audio rack and move that to the side and put only the amp between the speakers.

I was seriously considering the Hegel H590 in the past but I decided that I wanted DSP in my peamp because of the room limitations I would face with a floor stander. I also could not find a place to demo the Hegel even though I contacted Hegel a few times.
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