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Any comments on DAC going direct to power amplifier or to pre-ampliifer?

My local retailer HIGHLY RECOMMENDS the use of a pre-amplifier.  Bricasti believes that going direct to a power amplifier sounds better.  And, I also know that everyone had a "different opinion" about going direct or using a pre-amplifier.  

I am running my Bricast1 M1 SE DAC direct to my Hypex NCore NC400 Bridged Mono Block class D power amplifiers (no pre-amplifier) and like the sound quality very much.   

For me, the sound is more natural and clearer by going direct to a power amplifier. Of course, I think the M1 SE DAC has special “custom" circuits in the analog section to make it sound so good. I returned home and listened to my system.  It sounds terrific and I continue to enjoy and recommend the Bricasti M1 SE DAC.

Please note that we removed the R141 (circuit) from my Hypex NCore NC400 bridged mono blocks, thus lowering amplifier gain by 14 dB, requiring 14 dB higher M1 volume setting for same playback level.  Bricasti says the goal is to have the M1 CLOSE to 0db front panel attenuation.  If you reduce the volume on the M1 SE DAC, you cause more bit reduction meaning you lose sound quality.   We discussed this modification with Hypex and they approved the removal of the R141 circuit.  They suggested we be very careful removing the 4 R141 chips (for my 4 NC400 amplifiers) to avoid board damage.  

I noticed that many of the newer DAC’s (even the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty DAC and many others) have volume controls meaning their DAC/Pre-amplifiers are designed to go direct to a power amplifier (as an option, of course).  

What are your experiences of going direct to a power amplifier or using a pre-amplifier?  Have you compared going direct vs. going to a pre-amplfier and noticed any sound quality differences?  Have you gotten different results from using different DAC's and amplifiers?   Your comments are appreciated.  Thanks.





hgeifman

Showing 11 responses by jon2020

jon2020's avatar
jon2020
913 posts
 
The wifie will likely shoot down any of my pindaric dreams of audiophilic grandeur *Sighs!* 


Hello Guido,
Good to hear from you again although I am a bit saddened by your predicament at home even as I think you may have said it tongue-in-cheek.
Be that as it may, you may achieve some success with wifie by treating her to a large screen high-end TV and as she gets hooked to her cable while remaining forever thankful to you for your good taste, it would then be very unlikely for her to notice any change to your audio.
This worked very well for me!

Good luck and best wishes for the New Year!
J. :)
jon2020's avatar
jon2020
913 posts
 
The only way to decide which path is "better" is to simply go with and without a preamp in one's own system and then choose which path floats one's individualised personal boat more..... :)

jon2020's avatar
jon2020
913 posts
 

To all those in this thread who hear a significant improvement in the overall sound of their systems with an active analog preamp in the chain(myself included), it's good to know that we have let our own ears decide, theory notwithstanding.

Happy listening!

J. :)
jon2020's avatar
jon2020
913 posts
 
Interesting.

Most who have heard the PS Audio DirectStream via the BHK preamp to power amp(preamp is about 6k), agree that this combo sounds better than direct to power amp.

http://www.audiophilia.com/reviews/2016/6/18/ps-audio-bhk-preamplifier

So, should the DS as a source then be upgraded or should the amps?

jon2020's avatar
jon2020
913 posts
 
We know that already. So requiring a preamp would not make it a poor design.
Someone who wishes to get the Holo dac in a system that currently has an active preamp would be ok or should he change his active preamp to a passive one as an active preamp adds.......?
And if the new passive preamp doesn't match his current power amp, should he change that too?

jon2020's avatar
jon2020
913 posts
 
Heard it for myself at my local dealer’s.
You can listen to the bhk preamp with the DS at your local PS Audio showroom and let us know your experience.  :)


jon2020's avatar
jon2020
913 posts
 
The well-reviewed Holo Spring dac requires a preamp.
Not recommended for purchase then?


jon2020's avatar
jon2020
913 posts
 
I have have a buddy who has a system similar to mine. We put a preamp in his system and wow, more natural, musical, fuller sound. Put it in my system, no discernible difference. His: Cambridge magic streamer into a Nuforce mcp 18a analog pre to Bel Canto 300m mono blocks to def tech 8080 st towers. Mine: Cambridge 851N streamer to bel canto 500m mono blocks to Dali Mentor 6. Cabling and rooms are different, but still a puzzling difference.

From your and your friend’s experience, it can be concluded that for different dac/systems, the Cambridge, Holo, Bricasti, PS Audio, Ayre, etc included, the general principle is to go with what you hear best with your own ears from your individual systems.
jon2020's avatar
jon2020
913 posts
 
I really don't see any point in continuing this endless debate that has been raging since time immemorial.
Simply trust your own ears and cast aside all theory, dogma, aspersions, etc as to which should be right or wrong. As has been said ad nauseam previously here and elsewhere, there is no right or wrong answer.
Let your own ears decide for you whether you should get or not get a preamp(active/passive, tube/ss, etc/etc) in your system for maximum musical pleasure. 
Life is really that simple.

Enjoy the music!
jon2020's avatar
jon2020
913 posts
 
Yes get a Schiit Freya (active/passive, tube/ss, etc/etc) with remote which has a superb relay controled volume control, balanced or SE, and you can have it all, so you can see for yourself what suits. Compared to direct connection.
And you can send the Schiit back, if you think the direct connection wins out.http://schiit.com/products/freya 

Great suggestion by @georgehifi.

The Schitt Freya sounds like a truly amazing product for $699 with a return policy to boot. Anyone in the market for a preamp should most certainly give it a home audition. There seems to be nothing at all to lose here.

I wish more companies would come out with such a preamp with all these selectable options at various price points to suit different systems.
jon2020's avatar
jon2020
913 posts
 
Yes, they can be, and better, but you must use them in the top 25% of their full output, if below they can strip bits of the music and reduce resolition.....


So, we can easily compare direct to power amp at top 25% of full output of dac’s VC vs with preamp and then decide with our own ears.

This is a very simple A/B and we can all share our experience with any of the dac’s listed above.

J. :)

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