Anyone compared GoldenEar Triton 7 with Triton Reference?

Hello all -- thanks for the many interesting perspectives.

helomech, and kosst_amojan, thanks for your thoughts on the comparison with Revel/MA, and on the GE range.

ieales, thanks for the continued input.  One thought I did have: I think your perspective is: "If you can't optimize the listening experience, it's not worth buying the audio equipment", or something like that.  Here's how I see it: All of the elements that go into an optimized listening experience require resources: tweaking the equipment and its positioning extensively (resources: time, energy; capital for cables/interconnects; acquiring knowhow); modifying the room setting (resources: time, energy, disruption of living arrangements); special listening room (various kinds of resources); acoustic treatments (resources: time, energy; capital; acquiring knowledge).   In my case, I do not have any of those resources except some limited ability to upgrade some of the equipment itself (speakers).  If that gives me substantially greater enjoyment of the music, even if far from optimized, I would consider that money well spent.

misstl, thanks for the thoughts on the comparison.  You mentioned the T Refs being too large for your room (and ieales also mentioned them as being overpowering for his/her space).  Do you mean physically too big?  Or sonically too big?  If the latter, that ties in with something I wondered about at my dealer auditions: whether they were overpowering the rooms (I'd estimate the room were approx 500 sq ft).  Also, your description of the Ohm Walsh's has had me looking into those today.

stereo5, the reason I am trying to get a sense of the comparison is because I have the 7's, feel they are lost in my open-floor-plan room (approx 8000 cu ft.) and am looking for something bigger.  My ears did not find nearly as much difference as I'd expected between 7s and T Refs in my dealer auditions, so I'm asking for input from much more seasoned listeners.  You seem to say that it's invalid to compare speakers at such different price points.  Could you explain that a bit more?  I don't understand how in that case, it would be possible to figure out big upgrades.  Also, may I ask what size room your T Refs are in?

schubert, your point about not moving around at a concert is well taken, and I wish I could listen to music like that!  In my case, though, my listening situation is that about the only time I can listen to music is when preparing dinner in the evenings.  I wish it weren't, but it is, and so for me it would be listen then, or not at all.  (Hope I didn't just get myself banished from audiogon :)  That makes misstl's mention of a large sweet spot interesting to me... 

mlsstl, sorry for the misspellings above!

Thanks to all for the additional comments.

stereo5, the information about room sizes and your comparison of T1 and TRef was helpful, thanks.  I'm still puzzled by my impressions from my side-by-side T7 vs TRef comparisons at each of 2 dealers, especially as your T Refs are in a similar size room to the dealers' (and so overpowering the dealers' listening rooms may not have been the issue).  It's entirely possible that my ears aren't experienced enough to appreciate such differences -- although that probably also means that if my ears weren't impressed by a speaker, I would not be happy if I purchased it.  I'm a three hour drive from the nearest GE dealer, so I had assumed an in-home demo was out, but your suggestion is a good one -- it's a good idea to ask. 

jackd, thanks for the Spatial suggestion.  I have looked into them a little, but I was concerned about placement issues, as positioning is quite constrained, for me.  How far from the wall and sides are yours?

twoleftears, I am not necessarily aiming to stick with GE.  But GE seemed the easiest starting point, as I already have the 7s and a SuperCenter XL in a 3.1 HT configuration.  [For HT, what I have is quite adequate for me. It's for music that I've found myself hankering for bigger soundstage and more detail/clarity than the GE T7's].  As far as non-GE options go, another recent thread (https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/road-trip-to-demo-10-000-speakers) was very helpful in  identifying other possible upgrade paths.

jackd, thanks for the additional information.  If I were thinking about Spatial, I think I would be looking at the M3 Triode Masters that you have, rather than the X-2s (because I'd be uncomfortable purchasing $10K speakers without having listened to them at all; because I couldn't find much by way of reviews/measurements; and because the Spatial website doesn't mention a return window for the X-2's -- unlike for the M3 Triodes).  So, wrt the M3 Triode Masters: how essential do you think it is for them to have a sub each?  (Having to get 2 matching subs raises the effective price quite a bit over $4K).  Do you think a single 15-inch 600 watt sub could work with them, for a large 7000-8000 cu ft room?  I realize you can't give any definitive answers, just asking what you'd guess... thanks!

mlsstl, thanks for the info on the way in which TRefs were to large.

winefix, thanks for your thoughts on GE within-range comparisons.  I believe from other threads I've seen that you currently have M3 Triode Masters?  If so, can I ask you the same question I asked jackd:  Do you think a single 15-inch 600 watt sub could work with them, for a large 7000-8000 cu ft room?  -- thanks.

Also, to both jackd and winefix: any suggestions on how to figure out whether someone not too far from Iowa has them (M3 Triode Masters) and would let me come and listen...?  (Post to the Audiocircle thread...?)

@jackd and @winefix, 

Many thanks for all your input on the Spatial M3TM.  I actually spoke with Clayton today and he was incredibly gracious and helpful.  But unfortunately, after measuring my constrained positioning/space again, I just don’t think I can make them work with 3 feet behind them..   

Next thinking of auditioning Revel F208 and F228Be...

Hope everyone has a good holiday!

@jackd 

i hope to to be able to go up to $10K.  Color preference probably black, just because this will need to look neutral (it goes in the main living area).  I do have a list of speaker options that I’ve been researching, which has a lot of overlap with the list at the other thread I linked to a few posts ago.  

Any recommendations.. ?

@jackd 

Thanks!  Of those, only the Spendor was on my list.  Will look into those, thanks for the suggestions. 

@jackd -- BTW, if I understood correctly, you at one time owned Nola KOs?  If so, could you say a little about your reasons for transitioning to Spatial M3TM, and about how you feel the two compare? -- thanks!

@ieales
Thanks for your comments about Nola. I don’t have the knowledge like you do to identify spurious claims/jargon, but it did seem even to me that there was little technical information/measurements on that website to back up the statements made there.

Would you additionally be willing to give your thoughts on the technical description of the Spatial M3 Triode Masters? This is given at http://www.spatialaudio.us/m3-triode-master/ I ask because I’ve been getting interested in the M3 Triode Masters, but I don’t have the knowledge to evaluate what is stated there. In your opinion, does it seem technically coherent?

Also, there is a statement from someone on another forum, claiming that the parts in the M3 Triode Masters are off-the-shelf. This is from https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=149584.140:

---- begin quote----
"...Did you not notice as soon as you saw the speakers in the M3 they were stamped frames??? That is a sign of cheap drivers....

The compression drivers in the M3 are the cheapest worst sounding 1" compression drivers their are they are the K mart blue light drivers of the speaker world LMFAO. Ok the 15" coaxial is actually two different brands the 15" frame is a Eminence it is a Beta 12cx and it is $79.99 at u guessed it US speakers http://www.usspeaker.com/beta12cx-1.htm It is a coaxial but takes a screw on 1" driver witch means you can use any 1" screw on driver you like you could even use a bolt on 1" driver with a screw on adapter. Now this is were it gets really funny the 1" compression driver Spatial uses is one of the cheapest made it is a china made P-Audio BM-D440s and it is a whopping $79.95 at you guessed it US speaker http://www.usspeaker.com/paudio%20bmd440Sseries%20ii-1.htm

The lower 15" in the M3 is a Eminence Delta 12LFA and it is $79.00 at US speakers http://www.usspeaker.com/Delta-12LFA-1.htm So your talking about $490.00 in drivers for the M3 and that is our cost. Spatial i am sure only have less than half that invested in each M3 after buying the drivers in bulk. Your review for these terrible sounding speakers was just glowing really made me laugh. Out of all the 15" coaxial speakers there are you liked the cheapest worst sounding combo on the planet. a similar designed Modified Altec Lansing 604’s and 605’s would embarrass these M3 and those Altec have been around since the 1940’s as would a similar designed speaker using Radian 15" coaxial or Beyma, Faital Pro, B & C . With so many really really nice sounding 15" coaxial drivers available why would Spatial use inferior Eminence & P-Audio drivers."
---- end quote ----

*IF* these statements about the sourcing of the M3 Triode Masters parts are correct, does that affect your evaluation of the M3 Triode Master technical description in any way?

As I said, I ask because I’ve been thinking about the M3 Triode Masters, and would like to be as informed as possible about the product before any purchase. I hope I’m not stirring up a hornet’s nest here, or bringing up an inappropriate type of evaluation.

Thanks!

@ieales -- thanks for your input. BTW, in case it’s of interest to you, I just found a video where the Spatial Audio designer explains things in a way that was more understandable to me than what’s on the Spatial website: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyPPD5RJvag

@jackd -- Thanks for the additional information. I did see another rant in an entirely different place with almost identical wording to the one at AC -- not sure what’s going on with that poster(s). BTW, I definitely would like to hear more about your listening impressions of the M3TM and Nola KO.  Would you be willing to post them here? -- I think they would be interesting to many, especially as it seems difficult to find a lot of first-hand knowledge about either of these speakers. Or I could PM you if you prefer.

@secretguy — Thanks for the information.  It seems like most people with Goldenear Tritons don’t find the sweet spot constricted, although of course some do, as mentioned on this thread.  I myself haven’t felt that issue with the 7s — just looking for bigger sound. 

So do you like your Triton 1s?  I think I saw a thread somewhere from July where you were “trying” to like them...

Hello all -- I thought I’d provide an update for anyone who is interested:

Since I started this thread, I’d been researching various different speakers as an upgrade to my Triton 7’s, with many possible ideas coming from suggestions on this thread as well as other threads here on AG. I only managed to audition one additional speaker (Revel F228Be) and liked it, but just wasn’t sure how it would sound in my large problematic L-shaped room, and couldn’t justify a purchase of that magnitude without home audition, which the dealer wasn’t willing to provide.

Then, over Thanksgiving, I saw a promotion for SVS SB12-NSD subs substantially discounted at $400 each. Knowing that SVS allows free returns, I purchased a pair, just to see if subs would help with the bigger sound that was one of the main things I didn’t feel I was getting from my T7’s in my room.

I had thought that the TRefs when I auditioned them only provided ~40% bigger sound than my T7’s (IMO), and these two entry-level subs get me at least 20-30% bigger sound (IMO). With the subs, I can "feel" the bass and mid-bass, and it seems to me that some of the mid-range is fuller as well. To me, all of that adds up to a substantial improvement in depth/bigger sound. (In contrast, my Hsu 15-inch sub hadn’t seemed to help much, perhaps because it’s positioned in the corner of the "L" that is my room -- that sub’s size doesn’t allow any other positioning).

I would still like a little more detail, but upgrading the T7's is no longer feeling *urgent*. Thanks to all who provided various input, and especially to @jackd and @winefix, who germinated the idea of multiple subs.