Find a pair for Virgo IIs for about $2000. Save alot of money and have a better speaker. |
Yeah. You're the guy loving the Virgo IIs. They seem to have their followers, as do the IIIs. I know the original designer left, and the newer stuff is a different designer, though some really like his Caldera (?) My only concern would be that Virgos don't have the bass capabilitiy, with 2 - 6" instead of the 4 -71/2" the Scorpio has. A subwoofer might be an answer - but that requires quite a bit of tweaking to sound right. |
Sub woofer or more woofers that is the question.
The Virgo is a speaker for those who are pleased by excellent mids and even better treble. Great treble energy with great extension and detail and seemless, smooth, musical delivery.
The bass disappears in my ears on these however. If you must have prominent bass this will be a difficult proposition at best.
I don't know the Scorpio but I have had much experience with a speaker with 4 woofers. This doesn't mean the usual 2 woofer set up can'tmake satisfying bass but if youare comparing essentialy the same drivers. Engineered with a similiar approach to x-overs. More is more not better but more.
I thought I was going to be bassed to small bits by my JM Electras with the 2 8 inch woofers a piece and a well damped but large front firing port.The specs say no lower than 28 cycles but you wouldn't know it. This after years of listening to speakers that really don't make much bass below 50 cycles by spec and confirmed with test recordings to drop off steeply around 100. WellI didn't get bassed apart and now have an aquired taste for it.
Recently I picked up a monitor speaker on a whim. The Merlin TSM (model unsure.) I thought man! how sweet this midrange is and what beautiful treble! Which tweeters are these (Morel MDT 330 ?). Once again perfection is elusive. To say they have recessed bass, is an overstatement.
I undertook to remedy this problem by having an experienced speaker designer build a fast and highly musical sub woofer that would integrate seemlessly into the music and flesh out the TSM bass.
It turns out is very hard to get it to sound as integrated or generally as a good as aspeaker designed to deliver a sonic style/philosophy from the ground up is no mean feat.
Obviously there are many variables to try to account for the most obvious is the quality of the driver/s. Also the question of running it out of your pre. The typical sub is active with an amp wich is not the same as the one you are using for the rest of the drivers. The reason is obvious subs pull a lot energy out of you regular amps.The answer is to vertically bi amp with your best choice generally pretty costly or do what most do. Use pro-style solid state self amplication.
Again IMHO it just doesn't yield the quality of a whole.
Given this experience, I strongly favor coherence and argue against trying to bolster bass with a separate sub. Get the speaker that sounds the best to you at the start trying to add a patch to fix a perceived deficit is frought with problems you created by compromising at the start.
Therefore buy the Scorpios if you already know the bass is not what you want in the Virgo. |
Mechans, good advice on the subwoofer. Good in theory, hard in execution. Plus takes up space. If others disagree, please give your opinion.
Correction - I think the Avanti is the speaker liked, but, with our continually falling dollar (thanks Bush & your Global sellout!), it's now up to $15 Grand. Sorry, no buying here. |
You should be able to find a used pair of Avanti IIIs for around $7000. It is a great speaker and, in my opinion, better than the Virgo II. The original Avanti, like the original Caldera and the Libra, were not anything special
and kind of boring. I have not heard the new Avanti so I can't comment. |
I know Audio Physic raised prices considerably on Virgos (10K), and the new Avanti is $15,000 pair, so the Avanti IIIs should be less than 7K used. Good suggestion. Do you own the Avanti III now? |
I owned them for a long time prior to downsizing my system.
Easily the best speaker I ever owned and one of the best I've ever heard. |
I spoke to a former audio salesman who sold Audio Physic. His opinion is they are decent speakers, but only that, and one of the most highly overrated speakers, that are not what they are hyped to be by Fremer and others. He says the cabinets are too resonant and live, resulting in bass that is marginal at best, the tweeters not that extended or detailed, and the soundstage good, but not great. I better duck now before the mudslinging begins... |
why you don't try to listen to the Scorpio by yourself? I'm an Audio Physic dealer and I absolutely don't agree on what the ex-dealer said (ask him why now he don't sell Audio Physic anymore!). And what is overrated for you can be a bargain for somebody else. Trust your ears and hope in a good demo. |
Speakers are the most personal of all system components. The only way to choose is to listen. Audio Physic has made a lot of ordinary speakers. They've also made some that are simply extraordinary. The same can be said for all speaker manufacturers. |
Narrod, you're absolutely right!! |
I can't listen to the Scorpio because no one has them in my area. Of course, I agree that a demo is the best way, but that's not always possible.
Lino, what speakers do you carry in your dealership that you compared the Scorpio to? Or, speaker lines you auditioned and didn't find as good. Why don't you give some thoughts and comparisons to us? |
Hi Saxo. I thik that, as a dealer, I cannot give you any kind of suggestion on this point. I don't carry many brand of speakers in my shop now but for the passed 23 years I've sold many of the most famous brands (B&W, KEF, Spendor, Harbeth, Ensemble, Apogee, PSB, Sonus Faber, Magnepan, Thiel and so on). I really think that the Scorpio is a good speakers in his price range and,in my humble opininion, you can put it in yours "must listen list" but, as Narrod said, speakers are the most personal part of the hifi components and you have to use your own ears. I hope that you will find a good dealer that can help you. |
How about a response from a Scorpio owner? I've had these speakers in my system for just over a year. They were one of the pair of Scorpio's improted into the U.S. As with any system, changes must be employed in order for a new component, (especailly speakers) to achieve their potential. Ultimately, I ended up replacing my interconnects, (since they were 10 years old they needed to be replaced anyway), added cable elevators, treated everything with Extreme SST and added more vibration isolation under the electronics.
More background: via a local dealer, I auditioned the Vrigo II's a number of years ago and fell in love with them but could not afford them at that time. So, when I had the green, I went back to the dealer to buy a pair of Virgo III's. Not only was the bass virtually absent, the mids and highs were not as sweet as I recalled from the Virgo II's.
Shrotly thereafter, the Scorpio's became available. Initially, they produced only a marginal improvement over my previous speakers. With the added tweeks, I believe the Scorpio's are now reproducing very close to their potential.
In my opinion, these speakers offer an outstanding value. AP is known for speakers capable of huge soundstage with stunning, liquid mids and highs. The Scorpio's do not dissapoint. I listen to a lot of rock, jazz and blues and strong, accurate bass is paramount in order to recreate the correct presence of this musical style.
In Fremmer's review he mentioned comparing live performances with the Scorpio and being pleased with their ability to mimic the real thing. As a musician that plays and attends numerous concerts, I have to agree.
I notice three Scorpio's for sale on the 'gon at close to half price. You won't find any better value no matter how long you look. Go get 'em. |
