You are the only one who can choose your personal favorite sound. The difference is quite big between these two. Use your own music and listen both to them. At the end you will have your own favorite. It is that easy. |
I sold Avalon for about 6 years. I listend a lot to them. The things I personal do not like is that classical music sound a lot different in real. ( in my opinion) Even with tubes I still do not like the sound. The thing I dislike most is that instruments and voices are less sharp focussed and touchable as in real. It can give a wide and deep stage, but within the stage you never get a touchable 3d image I would want. Instruments are often too big in proportion with Avalon speakers. |
Yesss, including there own spikes. Every brand has his own properties/talents. This is how I work, I think and work in tools. First I Always want to know the properties/ talents of a tool. ( speaker, amp, source, cable etc) Also at shows and at other distributers it never convinced me. The sound and individual focus I never found good enough. Because within the wide and deep stage the focus is not that sharp. In real it is smaller and superior in how touchable a voice or instrument sounds. I never liked the sound of classical music played on Avalon speakers either. Sound of a violin in real is so much more emotional and warm. As it is a lot more direct and touchable. |
I have a friend ( client) who has still Avalon speakers. After many different parts in his set he has the best 3d and touchable image I ever heard from a Avalon speaker. I heard a lot of Avalon speakers and demo's. But...my image at home is superior in 3d and also more palpable. This level I never heard from any Avalon speaker in my life. Last month I was with my set at a big audio show, Many shopowners told me that they never heard such a tochable image in there life. |
The limitation of the Avalon is the respons of the low freq units. I use Monitor Audio Pl-200 with a PLW-15 sub.Respons in the low freq. are faster. This gives you a lot more layers in the low freq compared to Avalon. We also did a comparison with a 2002 Avalon Eclipse ( last version) with the Pl-200. In every way it was superior. The ribon tweeter gives more air and info compared to the Diamond tweeter. Instruments and voices are so much more papable and focussed at the Pl-200 compared to Avalon. I play 4-5 metres behind my speakers. And about 1 metre beside the speakers as well. But within the stage the individual focus is a lot more toucable and 3d compared to any Avalon I ever heard. Last month I was witht my set at a big audio show in Holland. Many called my set the absolute sound of the show. The owner and boss of a big audio magazine called us tot let know we had the best sound as well. On monday I spoke a lot of audio shopkeepers. Many never heard a 3d image what was this palpable and playing as real in front of them. This is 15 years of hundreds of tests I did in audio. |
The material Monitor Audio uses is lighter. And they also use a bigger magnet compared to Avalon. What Monitor Audio and Avalon have in common s that they both have a wide and deep stage. But the individual focus of instruments and voices inside this stage are a lot sharper focussed, more 3d and touchable at Monitor Audio Platinum. Monitor Audio uses pure zulver cable inside of the speakers. Avalon uses simple copper cables. Also in the more expensive speakers. A few years ago I met a person who owned the Avalon Diamond speakers. He modifies everything. He opend the Diamond speakers inside. He said also that it is cheap copper. And the quality of there filters is quite simple. Avalon tries to close there speakers so it is difficult to open them. |
The Revel is maybe not the best looking speaker, but they make good speakers. At the end it is a lot different comp[ared to Avalon. A speaker is also a matter of taste. Nice that there are so many flavours. Many Avalon owners use MIT cables. I recently sold a Audioquest Oak. We were stunned by the difference in quality. Audioquest is superior in every aspect you Judge a cable for. Mid's are a lot more open, musical and touchable. Audioquest have the best blacks in this price tag in cables these days. Many people follow what is said. I would suggest open your eyes ( ears) and compare. MIT gives a wide and deep stage just like Avalon. But you need a sharper and more natural and real focus. MIT never will give you this. When I compare a Audioquest loudspeaker cable you understand what the MIT is missing. |
I owned the B&W 800 Signature in the past. Classical music was so much more natural than Avalon speakers. But B&W is very poor in cross overfilters. There is almost no depth, so I sold them. I still don't like the sound of Avalon. But this is a matter of personal taste. The thing I disslike most is the average touchable 3d image with very sharp individual focus of instruments and voices. Wenn you compare a Monitor Audio Platinum speaker with Avalon you know how big this difference is. And you can not go back to the average focus of instruments and voices anymore. A friend of mine had a concertroom with a Steinwaywing. A room for about 65 people. Here I learded how direct and small a voice or instrument sounds in real. I call this intimacy. When I hear Avalon speakers you are aware how much less focussed instruments and voices are and the lack of this intimacy in sound. I could not life with this with the differences in real in mind. |
It is as it is, I Always say. Both Avalon and Revel make good speakers. There is no doubt about this. They have both there own sound and talents/properties. It's a free world to talk about speakers. At the end it is about a personal taste, this is the most important part in audio. You never can Judge about the personal taste of a person. It is the same as you cannot say; vanilla ice is better ice than chocolate ice. I do not like the sound of a Avalon speaker. Because in my world ( it is only my world) there are better ones. We are still only talking about a personal preference. I want a 3d sound were instruments are small and exeptional palpable when I listen to my music. Because this gives me the intimate sound I experienced with live classical music. Wenn I listen to Avalon speakers the level in 3d imaging and level in touchable sound is less good then wenn I listen to Monitor Audio Pl-200. Why? because the emotion ( for me) is bigger. Voices and instruments are sharper focussed and so it is more near to me. Avalon gives more distance to me and the music. |
It is at home. Audyssey Pro gives me much better controlled sound. I use a Monitor Audio PLW-15 subwoofer. I use it from 16hz till 140hz. It is exeptional fast so I can use it till 140 hz easily without any stress. |
My experience in a small room for about 65 people was that a voice ( like an instrument) was a lot more direct and smaller in dimension than I would have thought. I used Always 2 fingers to make a proportion wenn I clossed my eyes. Also at a bigger live concert with a very good acoustic situation I had the same experience. We were amazed how easy it was to point out the instruments. Also the differences in depth were the instruments were standing was easy to hear. Wenn I hear Avalon with MIT at audio shows and the speakers are about 3 metres from eachother. The voice is often over 1 metre wide. This I really hate. I love cables like Audioquest and Purist Audio because they are capable of giving a small and direct 3 dimensional image of a recording. Purist Audio uses a panel of 41 people to Judge there new cables. Also musicians. AQ and Purist are both aware of the small and direct sound of instruments and voices. The both have exeptional good blacks. I used my set for a big audio show last month. Many ( distributers, customers and audio journalists)said that I had the absolute sound. Cause of the natural sound and 3 dimensional paupable image. I want a system to sond as natural and 3 dimensional like in real. Good is never good enough for me. Every part ( tool) in my system I Judge for a long time before I use it. Since I was 6 ( I made my own recordings from the radio with a stereo taperecorder with tubes) I am addicted to music and sound. |
There are many different flavours and that's a very positive thing. And yess you can choose your own stuff to make it even more your own personal sound. Every speaker will Always have there own sound and how the image is projected. There is one thing very common and that is many people stick to the same brands for a long time. Hearing other brands is sometimes what they try to avoid. Narrow thinking is what many do in this business. Wenn you open your perspective you will hear that there are more brands. And sometimes it is even better than what you own now. |
With classical music I never liked Avalon. Because the sound of instruments is a lot different in real. I also use the word 'thin'in de mid freq. The other thing is dat the stage is deep and wide but within this stage instruments and voices are never sharp focussed and toucable as in real. My Pl-200 is superior in individual focus and a touchable image. I did a few tests and it was a big difference in how much beter the Pl-200 can focus comparred to Avalon. Because the stage is also very deep and wide as Avalon can. |
There are only a few brands who are exeptional good in a very sharp individual focus. Many make instruments too big. Audioquest and Purist Audio are one of the few who can give a very intimate focus like in real. I listened a few times to the Eidolons with classical music. A violin sounds a lot different in real. The thing I hate most is the individual touchable focus of Avalon. There is a lot of depth but I miss the intimate sound a small classical recording can give. |
To be honnest I saw them at shows a few times. They did not wake my attention. I se you use Tact. I sold it and to be honnest it is not that good. I sold the Millenium to one of my best friends. 2 months ago I apologized to him to say: witht the knowledge I have now I never would have sold it to you. This week I sold his Millenium at last. 2 months ago I was a t a show with my own set. Many said that I was the absolute sound by far of the show. Lyngdorf were here as well. With the 2.2 and samen subwoofers as you have. It was one of the most worst demo's. I was watching the people of Lyngdorf in there eyes during listening. And I thought; they are not even aware how bad it sounds. My demo was superior in speed, timing, 3 dimensional image, naural sound, extrem sharp touchable image. I see you use Nordost. I owned the Valhalla for over 12 years and I sold a lot Valhalla as well. This is not a good combination with Tact. Why? because you need different properties for the talents and sound of your system. For me sound is often like 1 and 1 is 2. I have a photographic memory in sound. I can Always compare the first option with the next. In 10 sec I know what is missing and what is good of every set with my own music. Wenn people use cables, amps, sources etc I tested I know what will be the sound of them togheter. I can discribe it in words before I use a number. I do this many times wenn I have to Judge a set of a client or at a show. |
I listen to many many Avalon speakers. As well the Eidolons and the Diamonds. Yesss they need room, but that is not the problem. I have doubts about the sound, but I Always say: sound is a personal matter. Beside this; I like the shape and how it is build. I love the wide and deep stage as well. I never heard the extreme realistic small and direct touchable image of voices and instruments what I experienced at my friends house with classical music. I miss the intimacy. At audio shows I hear that most people who give a demo are not capable of what they are doing. They do not know the properties of al the parts they use in there demo set. This is the key to the absolute sound. Many use cables which are not capable of giving the right small dimensions of instruments and voices. Avalon has not a lot of extreme small and touchable image of instruments and voices. Often they use MIT cables with Avalon. I sold it and I owned it. MIT can make a wide and deep stage just like Avalon speakers. Both they are not able to give an extreme 3d touchable image like you have the feeling if they are in front of you like in real. So you need cables with other properties to get a more intimate sound. I think many people in this business are f.... blind and deaf. I heard the Sentinel a few times. One time I asked to play Nils Lofgren acoustic live. The guitar was much too big in proportion. This I really hate. Was the same wenn I listend for 1,5 hours with my own music to Wilson Audio Alexandria 2. This was even worse. Because Nils Lofgren had a very very big guitar. Wenn I played Jacintha light my fire the crossflute was in the same line as her voice was. In the recording it is about 3-4 meters behind her voice. |
Many dealers sell the brands they have. These days the prefer what delivers the most money. I am only interested in the best sound for a client. Ayre has not the same quality as Pass Labs. Stage is less wide, and less deep. The sound realism is not in the same league as Pass Labs. With Avalon you get a smaller stage in dept and in wide wenn you use Ayre. Wenn speakers use faster speaker units, you will get less acoustic problems. Speed is the key to sound realism and less acoustic problems. |
The level what I have at home is so stunning, that it is very easy to let people hear what a 3 dimensional image is. Like it is easy to make Avalon owners aware about the difference in touchabel image. We are talking about superior difference. They understand directly what I mean with a small and direct touchable 3d image. They all use the same words. I never heard my music this touchable. I can think about 3-4 steps further in sound than other people in this business can. My photographic memory in sounds makes it a lot easier to come to this level. Of every single part in my system I know exactly what it does. Wenn you use Wilson Audio speakers with Pass labs and Shunyata cables you will get instruments which are too big in proportion. Wenn I would do a demo I ever would be a f..fool to make this combo. Because I know exactly what all the different properties are. I also miss the timbre in the mid freq of the Avalon. I see this as a personal thing. I use the word thin wenn an instrument or voice is not sharp like a knife in touchable 3d focus. Wenn I listend to classical music at my friends house I was pulled to the voice like a magnet. This is intimate sound like I want it to be. I never heard an Avalon doe this. Why? Because it does not have this property. It is that easy. My new Audioquest 2013 Redwood cable ( older have less silver) is the first loudspeakercable what I heard and tested which is capable of giving an extreme intimate sound like I experienced in real. The Oak has many of the same talents but is just made of copper. I sold this one with Avalon speakers. Now it is the Avalon speaker witht the best touchable sound I ever heard. But......what my Pl-200 does in this part is still superior. Now I blow every person away with ease. They all say: mmmmmmmmm...this is heaven and I would love to have this as well. What is the main problem in audio? Show's are done by people with not enough knowledge about all the stuff they use. They often make misstakes with the combination of gear. Cable use they really do not know what the properties are. In many shops I still hear this misstakes as well. I visit many people with audio sets from 12000 dollar till 180.000 dollar. Only a few had a good balanced audio set. Most of them had combination flaw's. |
I live in Holland.I am addicted to music since I was 6. It is not about my system. I am thinking in tools. An amp, source, cable, speaker etc is a tool for me. I label all tools. All parts were you Judge a sound system at I call the properties/talents of a tool. Wenn you know the poperties it will become more easy to use them in a system. In 15 years I have done hundreds of tests with different tools in audio and in vision. This gives a lot of information. This give me more freedom to adapt a system. The first thing I do for clients is only change the place of there speakers. Normally withb a few cm's maximum. I let a client play his favorite music for about 25 min. After this I use a few cd's to adapt it to the acoustic of the room. And to get the right dimensions of instruments and voices. After this I ask the person to play the same numbers as wenn he started. Then I often see a very big smile on there faces. I say: and this is for free. It is about using the right stuff to get a very high level in sound. In the last 2,5 years I did a lot of testing with roomacoustic measurements. I developed my own way of doing measurements. Next week people of a famous shipyard comes to my house. We will talk about sound and vison for yachts. With Audyssey pro I can get a much higher level in sound than what is even possible without it. All the different parts of Audyssey Pro I can demonstrate. Roomcorrection is just 1/3 of the whole system. I let people here wehat it does. I can put them all out. My way of measurements has a lot more dynamics and resolution compared to Audyssey does. I measure at different places and hights. I even get people hear what my measurements do with the sound. This is not the acoustic part. |
