Best MM?


I want to try a MM with my Herron VTPH-2a. What's the best one? Maestro 2, Zephyr III, AT VM760SLC? Something else?
dhcod

Showing 8 responses by halcro

I am sure that MC people will profoundly disagree. I am also sure that some of them tried many both MM and MC cartridges from all time periods.

Yes they will disagree.......but no....almost none of them has compared vintage MMs with MCs using their current SOTA systems.
For the last 20-30 years we have all been 'brainwashed' by the MC Lobby and all the 'serious' audiophiles have blindly moved onto the next 'great' and 'even more expensive' LOMC as they are introduced.
Almost none of them (until recently) has even had turntables with multiple arms and very few of them (until recently) have had tonearms with interchangeable headshells to allow them to instantly compare cartridges side by side.
This is now changing (if you read WTBF) where the uber-system owners have now accepted turntables with up to four arms....and most are changing to arms with interchangeable headshells.

In any case.......Chakster's mission (if you dare to accept it)....is to tempt YOU yourself to obtain and listen to these vintage MM cartridges and make up your OWN mind!
Why blindly follow Reviewers or rich audiophiles who can afford to spend $15,000 on a cartridge?
Calling them brainwashed imbeciles is a bold statement and an insult, unless you can prove it. You did say "we all", though. Who is we ?

You either need ‘reading’ lessons or ‘comprehension’ lessons....
Perhaps both....
The "Chrisma" costs more than this highly regarded MC, and whoever buys it figures it's worth the price; what I'm saying, is that the market place determines the price, and how much a cartridge is worth.

Chakster's point is that 'the market' has simply not HEARD the performance of the really great MM cartridges from 'The Golden Age of Analogue' and is only able to compare the 'current' MM cartridges to the 'current' MC cartridges.

I have compared directly, on the same turntables with the same tonearms, cables, phonostages etc......many of the recent LOMC cartridges (VdH Grasshopper, Helikon, Titan i, Koetsu Urishi, ZYX UNIverse, XV-1s, Atlas) against not only the great MM cartridges from the 'Golden Age'.....but also the great LOMCs from the 'Golden Age' (Ortofon SPU-Ae Gold, Fidelity Research FR-7f, Sony XL-55 and XL-88, JMAS MIT-1) and I agree with Chakster.
Not only are the great vintage MM cartridges better than the current ones, they are better than any of the recent $4000-$15000 LOMC cartridges I have heard.....and so are the great vintage LOMCs.

To Chakster's list of great vintage MMs....I would add:-
  • Garrott P77/SAS
  • Victor Z1/SAS
  • Signet TK-7LCa
  • Signet TK-7SU
  • Shure ML-140HE
  • Signet MR5.0Lc
  • Empire 4000D/III Gold
  • Shure V15/Type III/SAS
  • Acutex LPM420-STR
  • Victor 4MD-1X
  • Victor 4MD-20X
These great cartridges are all still available either 'used' or 'NOS' from EBay or Japan Yahoo for less than $1000 and often less than $500 and it just requires patience and persistence for anyone to acquire them.

Chakster's mission (and I admire him for it) is to point audiophiles to even better analogue sound than is available with the current 'overpriced' MC cartridges on the market.




Vortrex,
If I was going to acquire one vintage MM to compare with the Audio Note IQ3, which would it be? It must be compatible with a Kuzma 4Point (13g) and be somewhat easy to find, preferably NOS.

My standard recommendation for this question is:-
  • Shure V15/III
  • Victor Z1
Both of these are plentiful in the marketplace and economical (less than $300).
You can then mount a new Jico SAS stylus assembly in each of these and see if you agree with Chakster and me?

They will both sound wonderful in your Kuzma 4Point.....ignore the ridiculous Arm/Cartridge Resonance formulas.
What have you got to lose.....?
Possibly, a 15K cartridge does everything perfectly, but not a 1K cartridge ..

Well I have had a $12K MC cartridge (Atlas) and still have a $10K MC cartridge (Palladian) and Chakster is right....
There is NO relationship.....absolutely NONE..... between the cost and the performances of cartridges.
The wealthy audiophiles who are "hypnotized by reviewers or manufacturers"....compare uber-expensive MC cartridges with their even MORE uber-expensive (but newly released) competitors and comment on their differences.....
But they are the SAME differences that the impoverished audiophiles can hear between ALL the cost-effective vintage MM cartridges 🤪🤗
Among those of us on this thread, only a few who have taken the mega-expensive leap are qualified to dispute the proposition.

You actually don't need to own these 'uber-cartridges' to 'hear' them Lew.....
Fremer has been uploading high-res digital rips of various cartridge tests on his Analogue Planet Website for a while now, and not one of them has ever had the expensive LOMC (like the Anna and Atlas SL) as the winner (voted by the readers) against cheap current MM cartridges....
Why does this fact not resonate with wealthy audiophiles....?
See Raul's answer 🤥
Here is a Link to WTBF where you can actually hear YouTube uploads of uber-priced cartridges like VdH Colibri Master Signature ($12,000), Air Tight Opus 1 ($15,000), Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement ($16,000), Lyra Atlas SL ($13,000).
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/hear-it-yourself.26355/

Be aware that these cartridges are playing on a new $200,000 turntable  through $300,000 horn speakers.
The music is unfortunately undemanding.....but listen carefully and tell me that you haven't heard equivalent sound from cheaper cartridges in your systems.....?!
He rates the AT150ANV as incrementally better

It actually was the winner as voted (blind listening) by his readers.
And I think it won IIRC against his Ortofon Anna in his Cobra arm on his Caliburn turntable.....

I have the AT150ANV and this is an excellent example of what Chakster and I are saying about 'modern' MM cartridges......
Whilst in a blind listening test the AT150ANV beat the Ortofon Anna......it cannot compete against the GOOD vintage MM of the 70s and 80s 😝

And when compared to the GREAT vintage MMs that Chakster and I mention......it is really 'chalk and cheese' 😴
Hard to do better than the Signet TK-7 Series of MMs.....👍
I don’t remember if the TKN14 is the No.2 or No.3.....?
If you look at the underside of the stylus assembly you should see the No.2 or 3 embossed.
If you have the No.3 stylus....it is the Shibata and it effectively makes your cartridge a TK-7SU......