i heard the speaker at the venetian this past january.
what can i say ? it's a decent cone speaker design. |
The Pure Reference was shown, not its predecessor the TR. |
I heard this speakers at the Venetian as well, and was very impressed. Very open, uncolored and dynamic.
Killer bass.
They were one of the speakers I liked at CES.
Yes, they were Pure, not Total Reference |
what is the difference between the "Total Reference" and the "Pure Reference'?? |
Total Reference, now discontinued had a ribbon tweeter, four midrange drivers and four 12" woofers and was 95 db efficient.
The Pure Reference uses a ceramic tweeter, ceramic midrange and two 12" woofers. It is around 93 db eficient.
Both use the same size cabinet and first order crossovers and are a fairly flat impedance, thus are quite easy to drive.
I have not heard either of them but own Total Victories and have heard the TV's at Israel Blume's (owner of Coincident) home. When I get some time I plan to hear the pure reference. |
Both the TR's and PR's are wonderfully dynamic and articulate loudspeakers. The TR has a bit more mid/bass weight (presence) and the PR a bit more clarity (definition).
Your tastes and system will determine which speaker you would prefer. If you are interested I have a TR for sale.
I have just moved to a smaller home (retirement) and the TR's or PR's are just too big for my wife, without a dedicated listening room. Please see my ad under Coincident.
Thanks. |
I cannot recommend a speaker more highly. The female voice is reproduced impeccably. In orchestral works, each instrument is seemingly isolated. I purchased the Total Reference and the Frankenstein amps and have NEVER looked back. There is an immediacy and presence that I have never experienced in a system. My collection is primarily vinyl and it has literally "come to life."
I find it incomprehensible that the Total Reference speakers that are currently for sale have not been snatched up. These are currently THE BEST deal on Agon.
I cannot imagine that the Pure Reference is substantially better than the Total Reference in view of the fact that discontinuation of an element forced the redesign. I certainly cannot imagine that the difference would justify the $11,000.00 price difference if you were to buy the pair on Agon.
I do not know this seller, I am not trying to make the sale for him. If I were in the market, I would buy these speakers in a heartbeat. I am an ENTHUSIASTIC owner of these speakers and I am just trying to "spread the good word." |
Jhzoller, could you tell us which element on the TR was discontinued? Presumably mid drivers, since the TV4 use the same ribbon, and the PR use the same woofer. |
It was my impresion that the carbon fiber midrange elements were deleted. I saw that the new TV uses the same ribbon. |
It must certainly be disturbing for purchasers of the TR to find that an essential component of the speaker, the midrange driver (of which there are 4) is not manufactured any longer, and the manufacturer has nothing listed on his website about this speaker. This impacts re-sale dramatically, as evidenced by the presence on A'gon of a 5 month old TR, mint, selling at 50% of retail price, for so long. I, for one, am in the mafrket for just such a speaker, but how does one get reassurance that, should a midrange driver be damaged, such as in shipping, that a replacement will be available? It would be good to get reassurances from Coincident that replacements will be available and I will try to do that. That said, any other commments about the placement sensitivities of this speaker would be welcome, particularly the minimal distances to front and side walls (or solid obstructions, when facing inside. I would greatly appreciate hearing impressions from any owners of the TR. |
Even though it is not the same speaker I would have to assume that placement characteristics would have to be very similar to the Pure Reference. Go to www.high-endaudio.com for an authoritative and exhaustive review of the Pure Reference (this includes his thoughts on placement). I own the Total Reference and my placement is actually nearly identical to the placement that Mr. Salvatore recommends. Obviously, I arrived at my placement independently. I had my speakers long before his review of the Pure Reference.
I must say that I have been VERY happy with the Total Reference and have no desire to upgrade. I cannot believe that the sonic differences would be substantial enough to justify the extra expense. I have to believe that the designer's goals were the same for both speakers. |
How about the availability of parts for the discontinued model? How is Coincident Customer Service/Customer Relations for items not bought from them? |
I do not know. Call Israel Blume. I can tell you from my experience with Israel that he went WAY BEYOND the call of duty for me when I had a problem to the point he offered to fly down (to Virginia) to help solve the problem. I have had no prblems dealing with his company EVER. My ONLY complaint is the time it takes to get from Canada to the U.S. which is beyond the control of Coincident Technology. |
The Total Reference was discontinued, not because it had any serious shortcomings or flaws but rather due to the manufacturer of the midrange drivers taking the position that unless we purchased many thousands of units, they would no longer make them due to the difficulty and high cost of manufacture. We had and still have about 100 drivers in stock, which is far more than necessary for repair or warranty work (especially in view of the fact that we have not as yet had a failure in the field) but not nearly enough for continued production of the TR. TR owners can rest assured that all drivers and components will always be stocked as is the case for all Coincident models no matter how old.
As a matter of continued support for all Coincident owners, consumers who purchase speakers directly from us (which is required for those in areas not served by an authorized dealer) Coincident offers a trade in program to upgrade to another higher priced model. For speakers in mint condition and less than a year old, this means a full credit of the purchase price towards the new model.
If anyone has any further questions about anything to do with Coincident, please feel free to email us directly. We will get back to you, almost always, the same day.
Israel Blume-Pres.
Coincident Speaker Technology
|
TR vs PR -
The Total Reference was designed to be a full range , state of the art reference speaker that could be driven by any amplification from SETs to big tube and SS, work well in small rooms yet fill a large one, be placement friendly and still sell for a real world price. Judging by the reaction to the speakers by those who purchased them and others who heard them, the above noted goals were largely achieved and this makes the TRs unique.
The TRs were reluctantly discontinued due to factors beyond our control and not due to any inherent shortcomings of the speakers. The were and still are
marvelous speakers.
The Pure Reference was developed with the same design goals as the TR. It was the advent of the incredible high sensitivity Accuton ceramic tweeter and perhaps more importantly the midrange driver, that made the PRs possible. There now existed a single, very sensitive, high resolution driver that could optimally reproduce all the midrange frequencies from 100 hz - 4khz. Couple that with a tweeter designed in identical fashion utilizing the exact cone materials and now we had two drivers capable of breakthrough sonics that could without compromise reproduce all the frequencies from 100 hz - 35 khz.
Add to that the amazing woofers first used in the TR and the end result is a speaker that meets all the design goals of the TR but with the advantages of using fewer drivers(greater coherency, precision and continuousness) with none of the disadvantages(less power handling capability, curtailed dynamics or impact).
Heard on its own, the TR is everything one could ask for in a speaker. Its flaws are negligible yet its strengths overwhelming. As many TR owners have stated, it is difficult to believe anything could be superior. The PR is. It is not dramatic or anything resembling night or day. It is in the subtleties where the differences exist. The PR just sounds " less there"- a little purer and more transparent, more cohesive from top to bottom, a slightly greater sense of seeing into the music with no distractions. Those who have heard or purchased the PRs have been changed by the experience.
Israel Blume-Pres.
Coincident Speaker Technology |
