Could I be a Retail Wretch?


I started a discussion here this morning to get some feedback on whether an external DAC would make an appreciable improvement over an internal processor’s DAC. During the discussion, I said that I typically visit a local audio dealer, to experience the equipment and then, comparison shop to find the best deal. The particular dealer I was referring to, emails me weekly, sends postcards monthly and catalogs quarterly. It’s always with an invitation to “see and hear the difference”. So I visit, and occasionally buy some small ticket items. But, when it comes to spending thousands on nationally available equipment, I don’t feel any obligation to limit my shopping to that one location.

When I shared my buying habits with the forum, I received responses that said using any brick and mortar stores to demo and then buying elsewhere “cuzz” it’s cheaper is just plain wrong…

I was surprised at that statement. I’m a value oriented person. I enjoy quality items. But I search for them at the best price - is that wrong? If there’s no competitive pricing or added value, why should I feel obligated?


gwbeers
@david_ten  "Are you suggesting your moral and ethical standards are 'the' standard? : )"

Not at all. But, I do believe that there are standards for moral and ethical behavior. Most of them widely held. This issue does not rise to that level. The shop is open for demos. There is no contract for purchase.

But you bring up a good point. If there is no standard or basis for moral and ethical behavior then all any of us are really doing is asserting our own moral standard....which is an oxymoron by the way....the net effect of which is that anything goes as long as it meets my own or your own personal standard.

In which case the end-point is the same. If the OP is within his own standard then who are we to say he's wrong? That's the slippery slope of of having no concrete moral standards.
@inna- the last dealer I used in New York was actually not based in New York, it was Bill Parish, of GTT Audio based in New Jersey. Interestingly, the geographic distance–– about an hour from my house in the lower Hudson Valley––was never a problem because Bill made house calls: he would bring equipment, come to troubleshoot, bring over manufacturers, provide loaners, etc. There was no obligation to buy something immediately and in one case, I knew out of the box that I did not like the sound of a particular piece of equipment compared to the unit I owned and said as much. One thing I liked was there was no salesmanship-- he let me make my own evaluations and respected my views. During the course of about a decade, I had never even been to Bill’s place, but he made plenty of trips to my place over the years we did business. (I visited him shortly before I left New York).
I lost touch with Bill by the time I moved, but he provided an exceptional level of service.
As to paying a premium, I don’t think I was charged more than I could have gotten any piece of equipment, new or used, on the open market. I was a good customer, but hardly his biggest fish. But there was enough volume over the years, with enough expensive gear, that the relationship was a positive for both of us.

For many years, starting in 1981?, I used David Wasserman at the Stereo Exchange- this was before David had a big, fancy shop-- he was basically a clearing house of used hi-end. I was treated fairly, David was not an audiophile and had no pretensions about it-- but we enjoyed a long, positive relationship. (There came a point where my interest in hi-fi led me to more esoteric stuff but I still stayed in touch-in fact, I called him recently just to chat-- he is now semi-retired, and has a small shop by appointment).
The others- Andy, Lyric, etc. I did business with, but it didn’t stick --
Among the newer dealers, I thought very highly of Jeff at High Water Sound, though I never did any real business with him. At one point, I was hunting for vintage step-up transformers and he talked by phone for at least a 1/2 hour with me, largely about products he didn’t sell. My impression is, he is one of the ’good guys’--
I’m not going to make any moral judgments here- but on a purely self-interested basis, a relationship is a two way thing, and over the years, I suspect the dealers to whom I gave business rewarded that with service and opportunities that I might have otherwise missed. But, I do think it takes a dealer with some savvy, and a good sense of business relationships and how to maintain them. I’ve certainly encountered my share of dealers that who did not meet my expectations (I’m being charitable here) and they did not get continued business from me. There’s a lot more to this than salesmanship in my estimation. And it reflects my experience in other pursuits.

I think some may have misconstrued my internet comparison shopping. I search a specific product, typically by manufacturer and model number. More often than not , the search reveals a brick and mortar merchant with an E-commerce presence. There are two sites that invariably appear in my searches. Both are authorized dealers. One is only a few miles down the road from the McIntosh factory and the other is in Virginia. Both discount new merchandise, both have free delivery, one charges tax. Ironically the one in VA outsources some of his Mcintosh service to the one in NY. Both are readily available for a phone call or quick email response. Their quality of service has been exemplary. They both seem to have an inventory of “open boxes” where they can offer a lower than MSRP price. My last purchase was my MX-122. My local dealer was firm at $7000 plus tax and a delivery fee. He was expecting it to arrive the following week. I did my search, and wound up getting it in 2 days from the shop in NY for $5875 with shipping. While I appreciate the beautiful environment my local shop has built, I don’t feel obligated, in any way, to pay for the oriental rugs, wishing well fountain and leather recliners. At the end of the day those things stay in his store and I leave with only the item at MSRP. For the 15 to 20 minutes I’m in the store, I’d be just as content sitting on a metal folding chair. So, while I’ll still shop the local guy for sundries, I’ll continue comparison shopping the bigger ticket items.



To answer your question, you are wasting their time.  What you think you should pay for any given item has nothing to do what the store needs to cover expenses and generate a profit.  

On the other side of the coin, how would you react if your employer informed you they just received a qualified job application for your position and that applicant is willing to do your job for way less money.  So now your employer wants to know if you’re amicable to a pay cut.  Nice huh?
Salespeople have to earn your business...if they don't really give a crap about your audio needs and don't listen to you, then who cares about them? I walk into some local places and from maybe mentioning interest in a turntable get immediately hijacked into a sales rant involving how great something is from their point of view. And that thing is nearly always list price or more. I've seen items I actually am interested in displayed for months, and when I ask how it sounds (in this case a turntable) relative to others they sell I get, "uh...haven't heard it yet"...next visit months later same thing...my experience as an owner of a business dealing in sales of high expense things like convoluted lending or investment products was successful since I knew much more about the stuff than competitors and thus could work with the consumer to get things right, and my fees and pricing were generally less, so even if I didn't get a specific deal here and there the referral biz was so good I prospered. Duh...I also worked hard promoting my businesses, where audio "salons" are a joke regarding promotions. A nearby high end guitar shop recently had a packed house for a guitar maker's talk along with  a brilliant musician doing a little show...last time Goodwin's featured live music? No clue as they have no mailing list.