DAC OR NO DAC???


I am a newbie here and just getting into hifi and I am sure this is a dumb question but if anyone can comment and help me out?

I am currently listening to a lot of youtube music videos(quality varies) and tidal from my hp laptop via hdmi connect to a marrantz 7704. the 7704 seems to be decoding the signal pretty well. I tried a audioquest dragonfly red and it gave me some interference or something. ( maybe I needed the jitterbug to go with it?) so I returned it and just using the hdmi. Happy with tidal also but really like the music videos. One question is hdmi sound quality not as good as I could get? Can a dac help from this source? a dac to try that uses an hdmi? or should I just forget hdmi? A dac to try for under 500 or should I just wait and spend more? Thanks


My startup system consists of bw 804 d3's ( I do see where people say they are a little bright but so far I am enjoying them:) Marantz 7704, McIntosh mc207, bw 805d3 and htm1d3 for movies, fathom 212 that I turn up for movies and back down for music, source as described above and audio technical at lp5 ( I know it is a cheaper one but wasn't sure how much vinyl I would listen to but I am impressed with the quality of the new vinyl and sound I am currently getting compared to digital) -room 13 x 15 no acoustic treatments yet




rwrightcpa

Showing 12 responses by caphill

@rwrightcpa

You should trade in your Marantz AV7704 for the new Marantz AV8805. The AV8805 will perform and sound better than your 7704. For stereo music playbacks you should use USB to connect your laptop to the pre pro. And use HDMI for AV or video sources.

Besides the Marantz AV8805, I would highly recommend the following AV preamp processors :
* Anthem AVM60.
* Classe Sigma SSP Mk2.
* Classe SSP 800 (discontinued last year and today can be had for around $3500 ish). The SSP 800 has no USB DAC input.
* Lyngdorf MP-50 if it’s in your budget.
* NAD M17 v2.

However, the most ideal scenario would be to get a very good quality stereo integrated amp with HT bypass for your stereo music listening. And you can add a very good quality DAC or a streamer/DAC or streamer + DAC for your stereo music playbacks.
Or some stereo integrated amps have very good built-in DAC and would have USB DAC input.
So, use your AV processor for HT (surround movies) with your McIntosh MC207 multi-channel amp. But the amplifier section of the integrated amp will still be powering your front B&W 804 D3 speakers. There are countless options out there in choosing a very good quality stereo integrated amp.

It will be pointless to add a high end DAC with your Marantz AV7704 processor served as your stereo preamp for your stereo music playbacks. While your Marantz AV7704 is decent for HT use for movies but its stereo performance when used as an analog stereo preamp is lacking.
I would suggest getting a very good quality stereo integrated amp that has HT bypass mode for your stereo music playbacks.

@rwrightcpa

Or if you want a single unit solution that performs really well for both stereo music playbacks as well as surround movies (HT) I would highly recommend the Classe Sigma SSP mk2 preamp processor ($6k) or the original version of the Sigma SSP ($5k original msrp) that can be had at discounts (maybe around $3k or less) since it’s been replaced by the mk2 version. The mk2 version has upgraded HDMI and audio video boards to accommodate supports for Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, 4k video pass through.

You can sell your Marantz AV7704 av preamp processor. The Classe Sigma SSP is optimized for use as a high end stereo preamp for music playbacks. In the end you won’t even need to add an external DAC with this Classe Sigma SSP. For digital stereo music file playbacks you can run USB cable to its rear USB DAC input and its USB input sounded the best compared to its other inputs.
This unit is optimized for use with its USB input for digital stereo music playbacks. Its USB input implementation and configuration is very well designed and engineered.
For your AV or video sources you can still connect using HDMI cables to its HDMI inputs.

It is a bargain especially considering the price point and all the capabilities and functionalities that this unit performs. It is an AV preamp surround processor/excellent stereo preamp performance/excellent sounding when used its USB input for $5k new or less than $3k used.

And you can still use your McIntosh MC207 multi-channel amp to power all your speakers.
@rwrightcpa 

You can save a lot of money by going with the Classe Sigma SSP preamp processor. Sell your Marantz AV7704. You won't need to add an external DAC. Run a USB cable directly to the Classe Sigma SSP's USB DAC input for your stereo music playbacks. 
Do you need Atmos? Your McIntosh MC207 is only a seven-channel amp. How would you be able to manage 5.1.4 setup? You would need another two-channel amp. 

I’m still waiting for my Lyngdorf MP-50 to arrive any day now. Can’t wait! Been using the Classe SSP 800 for almost 9 yrs now and it’s time to get rid of it as it becomes somewhat obsolete. And the Lyngdorf MP-50 with its Room Perfect will be breathtaking and will be a step up from the Classe SSP 800 when it comes to immersive surround sound movies (HT).

But I’m using my processor strictly for watching movies (4k UHD & bluray disc playbacks). I don’t use it for listening to stereo music. This is in my dedicated HT room. I have a separate dedicated two-channel setup and system in a separate two-channel listening room that consist of completely different gears.

So, I can only tell you how the Lyngdorf MP-50 performs for surround movies or HT. I have previously demoed the Lyngdorf MP-50 in a different HT setup and system before buying it. It was spectacular. With Room Perfect engaged and when properly calibrated it crushed the Classe SSP 800 for HT. I never tried the Lyngdorf MP-50 for stereo music playbacks though. I also only used my SSP 800 for HT, but I have tried the SSP 800 for stereo music playbacks before and it was great especially coming from an AV preamp processor.

The Lyngdorf MP-50 does not have stereo analog audio inputs, only digital inputs. This unit is purposedly built for HT. It only has XLR balanced analog audio outs, no single-ended outs.

You should definitely get the Lyngdorf MP-50. You can use its internal DAC for your stereo music playbacks. It has USB, HDMI, AES/EBU, spdif coaxial digital, Toslink optical digital inputs. This will be a major upgrade from your Marantz AV7704.

The Classe Sigma SSP is excellent for stereo music playbacks especially when using its USB input and especially considering its asking price but the Lyngdorf MP-50 is way better for HT or surrounds especially with its Room Perfect.
@rwrightcpa

Congrats on your purchase!
The Classe Sigma SSP is an AV preamp processor, it isn’t a dedicated stereo preamp. It takes care both your stereo and multi-channels (HT).
And you won’t need your Marantz AV7704 any longer.
For your stereo digital music file playbacks just use USB cable to connect to the Classe’s rear USB DAC input. The Sigma SSP also has stereo analog audio inputs (XLR & RCA).


caphill

If you don’t mind me asking what you have in your designated listening room?

Your ht setup is to die for:)

@rwrightcpa

My main 2ch setup and system in my dedicated stereo listening room consists of the following :
* Magico M6 speakers.
* Naim Statement NAP S1 monoblock amps.
* Naim Statement NAC S1 linestage analog preamp.
* Digital front end consists of : DCS Vivaldi full four stacks (Vivaldi master clock, Vivaldi upsampler, Vivaldi DAC, Vivaldi CD/SACD transport).
My Analog front end rigs consist of the following :
* Kronos Pro turntable with dedicated Kronos stand specifically designed for the Kronis Pro.
* 12" Black Beauty tonearm.
* Air Tight PC-1 Supreme mc cartridge.
* Discrete linear class A PSU.
* Audio Research Reference 10 phonostage preamp.
* Shunyata Research Hydra Triton triple combo power products.
Speaker cables are Transparent Magnum Opus. Interconnects and power cables are Transparent Opus.

My bedroom setup consists of the following :
* Naim Uniti Nova.
* B&W 805 D3 stand-mount speakers.
* Audioquest Niagara 1000 power product.
* Shunyata Research Sigma speaker cables.
* Transparent Reference USB cable.
* Audioquest Diamond ethernet cable.
@rwrightcpa

Make sure you get a really good quality USB cable to connect to the Classe Sigma SSP’s rear USB DAC input for your digital stereo music file playbacks.
It makes huge difference. I recommend either the Transparent Premium, Reference, or Audioquest Diamond. The same with the Ethernet cable, HDMI, analog audio interconnects, speaker cables and power cables.


@rwrightcpa 

what were the issues with the Sigma SSP? 

The McIntosh MC 2600 seems to be a fine choice and will probably mate well with your McIntosh MC207 power amp. 

@rwrightcpa

Sorry to hear about your recent Classe Sigma SSP Mk2 purchase which was a defect unit. 

All Classe AV preamp processors (Sigma SSP & SSP 800) require each speaker configuratio, inputs, etc to be assigned to each individual profiles and input names. Setting up Classe processors are very different from say your Marantz AV7704 processor. If you never had any previous experiences setting up Classe processors you might find it a bit confusing the first time, but once you know how imo it would be easier than most Japanese AV processors or receivers.

But it seems like you got it set up correctly and done your part cause you said you got the video to work but not the audio. And you tried factory reset and everything and still no audio. Obviously it’s a defect unit. Could have been HDMI switching or board failure, dunno.

No wonder you got it real cheap and you said it was the Sigma SSP Mk2 (the latest version) which supports the latest formats and codecs eg Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, 4k video pass through, etc.

It was suspicious in the beginning why an AV processor that supports the latest AV formats was being sold for less than half of its MSRP or retail price and obviously this is still a current model (Mk2 version).
@audioengr

This is not for me. It is for the OP.
The OP just recently purchased a used defective unit of the Classe Sigma SSP Mk2 AV processor on eBay. I do not own the Classe Sigma SSP.
I think you got it all mixed up.
@rwrightcpa 

Are you sure you had everything set up correctly and properly on your Sigma SSP? Cause setting up Classe processors are very different from setting up your Marantz processor or other Japanese processors. I had set up my friend's Marantz av receiver and it was easy and basically plug n play. Whereas with Classe processors you will have create a profile, input name, set up speaker configurations etc and then assign each profile & input name with each speaker configuratuo to each assigned input. 


@rwrightcpa 

When you asked about the internal DAC in McIntosh MC2600, did you mean the C2600 preamp?