David Wilson must be a little annoyed...


the Absolute Sound has pronounced the relative new-comer Magico as having designed the least-flawed loudspeaker in the world (the Q7). the Wison XLF is described as the best "cost-no-object" speaker, and while "flawed" in some respects, is the company's best effort yet. given the lengthy history of attempts at making a perfect transducer, Wilson and its many devotees might take all this as a funny way of saying "better luck next time" instead of "this by far exceeds all that has come before which was already pretty darn good".
i have little doubt that, for $180,000 (or name another huge number) the Q7 is very VERY good. the cabinet is "inert", the drivers weigh next to nothing, and the crossovers are made from premium parts arranged as carefully as technology allows. But once upon a time, the B&W 801 Matrix ($5500) was
called the "audio end of the road" by Stereophile. so ACCURATE was this loudspeaker that you could tell what kind of bassoon the guy in the orchestra was playing, and on what row, completely distinct from every other instrument being played. you needed a chain of superior components upstream of course. but i will never forget personally auditioning this speaker and thinking "WOW"
as the music was clearer and cleaner with the best bass extension than anything i had ever heard before.
of course better speakers HAVE since been designed and the bass i was so impressed with turned out to lag behind the other drivers and needed a better design, better parts, etc. to catch up. but the Kevlar midrange unit is still with us in various forms, and the isolation of the "head unit" from the low-bass is also still a common technique. but how many multiples of $5500 (even allowing for inflation) does it take to clean up the sound of a loudspeaker, and also keep it from "shaking and baking" if you really crank up the volume?
I think everyone knows that probably $20K, maybe $30K, should give the speaker manufacturer a lot to work with. And for $50K you could wrap it in the most attractive materials on the planet Earth.
After 60 some odd years of reading about "OMG" components in the audio press, I would love to congradulate Magico on the one hand, and express my annoyance from another (and another ad.infinitum) article about the new greatest hi-fi thing for [you can't afford it]. personally i just happen to like the shape and appearance of the Q7 a lot, very clean, very uncomplicated. i do favor using grill coverings however, and feel that should always be an option
lest someone comes along "poking" the drivers to see how they move. there might even be some "contour" controls on the back turning up or down the tweeter or attenuating the bass to allow for a less than perfect room (although how could one place a "perfect" speaker in an imperfect environment?)
if this entire argument is exciting, or conversely tiresome, i just would like other persons' reactions to these pronouncements in the audio press.
and WHAT IF the Wilson XLF was placed side by side with the Q7 and you asked pro reviewers as well as music lovers to decide which speaker was better and/or which would be easier to live with long run?
while you're at it bring in a Rockport, MBL, Kharma, Nola, etc. set of speakers and try to decide all over again. Make it even more fun, and limit
the selling price to $50K or below, and see just how close you can come.
Just some random thoughts as we enter into the Audio Cliff....
french_fries

Showing 13 responses by mapman

""Go listen to live musicians and use it as a template to recognize and appreciate natural sound. You`ll be happy and spend far less money." Charles1dad"

Good advice!
No speaker plays as well away from home in an away game in an opponents venue. Kinda like most NFL teams.
Have we reached "the absolute sound" yet?

If not how will we know it when we hear it?

IS it better than sex?
"even if i had the money, etc. i still wouldn't do it. Would I?"

I'd like to think I would not in that I like to keep things simple (having been born and raised in AMish country after all), but I'll let you know for sure after I maybe hit the lottery someday.
"But I do appreciate the effort being made, and the risks taken and hope to see the downstream results of their research and development to more affordable products, either by Magico or others. "

For extreme comparison/contrast, John Strohbeen at OHM Acoustics has been doing this exact thing now refining his CLS Walsh driver and speakers for over 30 years. They are now in their 4th generation of refinement, or essentially 1 marketed revision every 7-8 years or so, and sell for a small fraction of Magico cost regardless of room size or bass level requirements. Also totally different company styles and target markets, I would say, OHM being about as blue collar/pedestrian a small business operation as there is (despite JS's MIT engineering school credentials). OHM targets the best performance possible for minimal cost always. Magico targets the best performance possible at any cost and provides several smaller and lesser models for less but still most pricey.
"Why? You already have an "ALL OUT ASSAULT" system."

One can never have too many toys, right?

Well, maybe expensive ones......
"everything Ohm has made since is boring and quite simply average "

Westborn, I think there are a lot of OHM owners, both new and old, that would disagree.

I have heard Magico minis set up very well. They sounded nice for what they did, but I would question the value. Its hard to question the value of the OHMs.

Have you heard the most recent OHMs, serie3 or current X000 line? If so, running on what system? They might sound as you describe if not set up properly with the right amp. OHMs over the years are reasonably affordable and many are run off systems that cannot make them sing. Setting up properly with the right amp is part of the secret sauce (as it is for most speakers).

Stereophile pointed out some flaws of the original 1980's vintage OHm 5s back in 1987 and said if those were corrected, you would really have something.

I can assure you the issues have been corrected since and they are now very competitive with the best most expensive systems I have heard (I have heard quite a few including Magico and others in recent years for reference).

SO I think your assessment of OHMs is not an accurate one. They may not be for everyone (what speaker is?)but labeling them mid-fi would definitely be a disservice, though the cost relative to Magico alone might lead one to think that way.

COme hear my F5 series 3 OHMs in my rig and I'll see if I can change your mind.
West,

You sound like the magico dealer after I auditioned them and I told hm what I had. Of course, he had never heard my system either and I did hear his 6 figure setup. He actually ridiculed me! Based on his opinion only. I think he said he had heard some OHMs years ago. And probably his desire to make me want the Magicos as well.

What is the league we are talking about exactly?
"The league we are talking about is the accurate representation of the recorded event. "

Having attended many live events in many venues over the years, including a dozen or more this past year alone, I would say that OHMs are definitely in that league then IMHO and represent a tremendous value compared to Magico and perhaps also Wilson.

OHM sells direct only and does not advertise and market other than via word of mouth of owners. I suspect that to help keep overhead costs low and a focus on delivering the best sound possible for minimal cost enables what is delivered. OHM and Magico or Wilson cannot be compared in regards to how their products are marketed and sold.
"Many people just love the Bose sound. And Ohms. And I don't doubt that many enjoy the music through these systems more than many audiophiles enjoy music through their expensive systems. I enjoy music through my car radio too. But I don't pretend that it is accurate or high end, or try to compare my car stereo to a high end home system, like you compare your Ohms to Magico, Evolution, or Wilson. Your overwhelming/advertising number of posts on A'gon regarding Ohm (reflected by clicking on 'mapman'), and here your attempt to compare yours Ohms with Magico, EA, and Wilson is, like Ohm speakers, hardly transparent. But as long as you enjoy them, then more power to you."

What a condescending load of crap!

At least I am consistent and say what I mean. No need to apologize for that. Sorry if find the idea that speakers costing way less that more people might actually be ab le to afford and not targeting the high end specifically might compete with the poster boy brands of high end audio.

Maybe they do, and maybe they do not. One looking to spend tens of thousands or more on speakers otherwise would have little to lose and much to gain by finding out for themselves though I would say.

And I am always glad to talk about any product that I am fond of for whatever reason with anyone who is interested. It's nice to have a place like Audiogon to discuss these things where at least the discussion and learning about good sound and audio needed to make informed buying decisions is free.
"Mr. Mapman, methinks thou doth protesteth too much."

The grouping with car audio is what set me off. Really??? C'mon and get serious.

Peace on Earth!


"I enjoy music through my car radio too. But I don't pretend that it is accurate or high end, or try to compare my car stereo to a high end home system, like you compare your Ohms to Magico, Evolution, or Wilson. "

I do like that you say what you think!

I'm glad your home system beats your car one. Surprisingly, so does mine! At least we have that in common. I will not be bringing my Alpine gear to any shootout. :-)

Enjoy!