Direct drive/rim drive/idler drive vs. belt drive?

If a turntable company has succeeded in making several versions of a turntable, essentially with different drives, while at the same time keeping the platter pad and platter signatures exactly the same, I would agree that the differences one heard in them could be ascribed to the drive.

However- the drives themselves require that the platter design be different! Thus I severely doubt that *any* company has demonstrated this successfully.

In working with the Empire into its evolution into our model 208, we found that the platter pad affected the sound, but if you did nothing to control the resonance of the platter itself, you were missing a bet. IOW, although the pad I've been working with is head and shoulders better than anything else I have seen, it still did not control the platter; damping the platter was still a major improvement.

BTW, the platter pad in question was designed and built by Warren Gehl (currently at ARC) about 20 years ago. It was used by SOTA on the first 50 to 75 Cosmos tables, at which time the formula got modified. So an early Cosmos would have some of the same advantages, if you could fix the drive. I use this pad on my personal table only.

I find it astonishing that platter pads have received little or no attention in the last 2 decades, despite the extreme importance they play in controlling vinyl resonance caused by the needle tracking the groove. Resonance control otherwise has been one of the biggest strides in turntable technology over the years- but almost no work on the place where it counts the most.

And for the record, if the mat is too soft, like a rubber mat, dynamics will be suppressed. The interface has to be exact- the pad has to be the same hardness as the vinyl, so that no energy is reflected back to the LP, yet the mat has to immediately absorb the energy. Acrylic mats are too hard, rubber and felt way too soft. Honestly if these things are not sorted out first its almost impossible to tell anything else about the table! My advice is to try it first before you knock it. The only problem is- where do you get a proper mat and for that I have no answer- there isn't one anymore as far as I can tell. That is how bad this situation is- the platter pad is one of the most audible artifacts of a turntable excluding the arm and cartridge, and there are no definitive pads even available.

Warren saw to it that a good number of serious audiophiles in the Twin Cities area had his pad (FWIW he spent about 5 years perfecting it- I personally had about 5 or 6 earlier versions before he got it right). So we have had ample opportunity to compare it on the SP-10, SL1100, Conneseur, Rekokut (idler drive), Empire, SOTA, and the like. FWIW, a salesman at one of the local shops figured out how to install the pad on a vacuum SOTA, which resulted in his getting a job with SOTA. That person was Allen Perkins, and is why the early Cosmos tables featured that pad.

Atmasphere,
hope I don't sound boring by now?
Ever bothered to look at that funny platter-pad material of the SMEs at all?
Re: >> I find it astonishing that platter pads have received little or no attention in the last 2 decades <<

Not so, I'd say.
Bonded copper-pad of TW, bonded vinyl-pad of TransRotor, bonded cork-pad by Acutus, bonded glass by Brinkmann, non-bonded felt by Linn :-), etc. those are all pads on the platter, even though they are bonded except Linn.
Does that make the difference with your definition?
Axel

Dear Ralph, I would have to agree with Axel. Platter mats (pads) have received LOTS of attention during the vinyl renaissance, both in the aftermarket and from turntable manufacturers. Just do a search of any website that features products for vinyl reproduction, and you will find dozens of candidates. In fact, there are too many different choices for any one person to evaluate. Materials include felt, rubber (or some variant thereof), sorbothane, carbon fiber, graphite, copper, other metal types, dots (made of cork, felt, what have you), and combinations of any of the foregoing, plus no mat at all. I guess what you are saying is that only the one mat made in small numbers and sold only in Minneapolis area and on early SOTA tables is really proper. Can you reveal what it is made of? By the way, many would agree with you that the mat should take energy away from the LP and therefore should be made from a material that is similar to vinyl. So why not vinyl?

If the speed of a turntable is off by 1%, which can happen to some Rega tables, you think a fancy platter mat(I am sticking to the term "mat" instead of pad just for conventionality, why change now.) can improve that? Enough said.

Lew, I myself think that is a good idea. I agree there are a lot of platter pads out there, as Axel says, its just that most of them are a joke. If you are going to make a decent pad, it should use materials science and physics- like understanding how vibration travels through materials.

Keep in mind that the stylus exerts tons of pressure on the LP. Yeah, its only a 1 1/2 -2 grams but the stylus is tiny. The result is that the LP depresses, just like ice on a frozen lake does when a car drives over it (of course, we probably see more of that up here in the frozen wastelands).

So the mat cannot allow the LP to sag- it has to stand up to it. And it has to do that while controlling resonance. That is why this is such a tricky issue- and why so many platter pads are really not even close.

I'm sorry that this pad that I and a few others have is not in production (IMO/IME it was the biggest advance in LP reproduction when it appeared). That it contains lead dust likely has a lot to do with it :)

Warren says he can't get some of the materials anymore. He also said it was very labor intensive- the materials had to be combined in the right order and with correct timing. He used a special oven to cure it. I have seen a few examples come up for sale- the last one I saw went for $1200.00. Based on that I would guess that there is a budget for someone who wanted to get serious about this.

Obviously not every table could manage this thing- it weighs about 5 pounds.

Since there are only a very small number of these made before SOTA got the rights to it, there are only a few people who have heard what it does and how profoundly it affects things. However my point here is not that I have this thing, but what it taught me: that **only** when the platter pad and platter issues are reduced to a common denominator can you have an intelligent conversation about drives. This assumes that the 'table is otherwise on speed and working right, with no 'measurable' speed issues. IOW I suspect that many here are describing other differences and ascribing them to the drive when there are more fundamental issues involved.

I cannot tell you how many times I have seen people come into a room and upon hearing something they like, immediately ascribe it to the speakers, taking nothing else into account. I believe this to be the same phenomena, since I don't know of a decent production platter pad. If someone can point me to a pad that has the exact same hardness as vinyl but it otherwise completely dead, I'll immediately make an exception. Any takers?