n80... Sadly the barometric pressure will change later today, destroying the perfection...
Discovering I may have the cleanest AC power in USA
PS Audio Noise Harvesters are on sale. $50 each.. So naturally I had to buy a pair. 36 hours later in my home.Well I clean the prongs, Caig Gold them, and plug them in.
Nothing.
Nothing.
I am wondering broken? DOA?
I move them to other outlets not on my stereo in the kitchen, in the bathroom (the bathroom has a air cleaner plugged in the same outlet, motor running). OK a single blink.
I remember the dimmer thing. Plug the Noise Harvesters into the stereo again.. and turn on the only dimmer in the place (in the bedroom, on a different circuit) KABLAM!!! Now they are blinking pretty regular. OK they are NOT broken.They also blink when I put them on an Adcom AC box also on different circuit than stereo. Both the Cable internet box and the WiFi box are on it. And yes they blink every minute or so.I checked the Furman REF 20 outlets, no blink. The direct to the amp.. no blink.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So I apparently have just naturally the cleanest AC line in America? (For my stereo equipment.)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Part of it may be the fact I packed the duplex enclosure 20 amp single line I use for the stereo with small quartz crystals coated with Automotive dielectric grease, in small baggies, the duplex is also the Furutech GTX NCF type, and the wall plugs are also filled with the loose small quartz crystals, plus some flattened baggies of the crystals wrapped around the outside shell of the plugs at the wall
Good thing I only ordered two of the Noise Harvesters. More are not needed. (and I actually do not even need the two. but that is OK. I can keep them as a sentinel, to know if I ever get noise on the lines.
So I do not know if my home made anti noise crystals work magic? (along with the Furutech NCF which is basically a refined version of my own crystals) or if I really do have some of the cleanest AC around. (PS I live in a 90 unit apartment building, folks above below, around me. Things like my frig I have several ferrite cores with the AC zipcord wire wrapped in and around them, ditto air cleaners, lamps..
Nothing.
Nothing.
I am wondering broken? DOA?
I move them to other outlets not on my stereo in the kitchen, in the bathroom (the bathroom has a air cleaner plugged in the same outlet, motor running). OK a single blink.
I remember the dimmer thing. Plug the Noise Harvesters into the stereo again.. and turn on the only dimmer in the place (in the bedroom, on a different circuit) KABLAM!!! Now they are blinking pretty regular. OK they are NOT broken.They also blink when I put them on an Adcom AC box also on different circuit than stereo. Both the Cable internet box and the WiFi box are on it. And yes they blink every minute or so.I checked the Furman REF 20 outlets, no blink. The direct to the amp.. no blink.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So I apparently have just naturally the cleanest AC line in America? (For my stereo equipment.)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Part of it may be the fact I packed the duplex enclosure 20 amp single line I use for the stereo with small quartz crystals coated with Automotive dielectric grease, in small baggies, the duplex is also the Furutech GTX NCF type, and the wall plugs are also filled with the loose small quartz crystals, plus some flattened baggies of the crystals wrapped around the outside shell of the plugs at the wall
Good thing I only ordered two of the Noise Harvesters. More are not needed. (and I actually do not even need the two. but that is OK. I can keep them as a sentinel, to know if I ever get noise on the lines.
So I do not know if my home made anti noise crystals work magic? (along with the Furutech NCF which is basically a refined version of my own crystals) or if I really do have some of the cleanest AC around. (PS I live in a 90 unit apartment building, folks above below, around me. Things like my frig I have several ferrite cores with the AC zipcord wire wrapped in and around them, ditto air cleaners, lamps..
Showing 22 responses by elizabeth
Another insight, I was able to find the specific culprits near my stereo which are noise polluters. I thought it was the whole Adcom conditioner. Noooo. It was only the Laptop power supply!
I also put a bunch of clip on ferrites on the laptop cord, but it only softened the blinking some.)
All the rest no noise. The laptop power supply is a BIG noisemaker. I moved it to another AC line and the Adcom turned silent. Then the Plasma TV. but ONLY when turned on. When it is in standby, no noise. So it kind of does not matter much. So the PS Audio Noise Harvesters have more than a simple use. They can help locate offending products! |
Clearly I do not have enough noise on the AC lines to hear or see a difference. Even with the one dimmer in use in my apartment.. no change. (If the dimmer did make a change, I would have noticed it before now.. MY LP collection is in the bedroom, so using them the lights on and off a lot while listening. (The Noise Harvester is responding a lot to the dimmer even though the dimmer is on another branch. and the Noise Harvester is at least seventy five feet of wire and a few circuit breakers away from it. Other folks have commented they can her the difference removing the AC line noise. MY THREAD HERE is mainly saying I have no need for them. Period. Thus the I have the cleanest power in USA comment. But I do have to say using them to find the products which add noise seems very useful. My laptop charger in particular is spewing HF junk. One thing I am going to do is stuff that dimmer box back full of treated crystal baggies. and then see if the results matter to the Noise Harvester. I will report back on the results. Added ten minutes later: I pulled out the dimmer, stuffed a few baggies of treated crystals around the back, and wrapped one around each leg of wire. Results: lessened the blinking of the Noise Harvester by about a half. Still clear even blinks, but wider spacing between the blinks. from obviously one source. So the crystals did a little, but not a lot to eliminate the HF noise from the dimmer. The dimmer makes no noise if on full, or off. Only creating hash when actually 'dimming' the two 100 watt bulbs. (Yes I still use incandescent in there. They are not on a lot. and last for many years! |
Currently, the sale at Music Direct is two or more... $50 each.So at the sale price five would be $250. not $399. Since I already have no noise.. I cannot see buying several more just to discover I didn’t have any noise after all.... Seriously, on the amplifier line, the light NEVER blinks.(except if the bedroom light dimmer is on.. then just a steady slow blink blink blink/The Plasma in on the Furman, and the noise is cut from the other duplex in the Furman, and outside of it, nothing. When I moved the Laptop PS, the noise is not making it back to anything. Even though I do not seem to need them, they were useful to find noise. And pick out offending noisemakers. Worth $100 to know this. to twoleftears: The ’NOISE’ is HF garbage riding on the AC lines. |
10,000 Hz and up... is the frequency area of cleaning : Here is a direct quote from Paul McGwan: " we would look at the Harvester like this. A simple product designed to reduce power line noise above 10kHz. On its input there is a capacitor and a choke (inductor or magnetic device) placed across the power line, forming a simple bandpass filter. At the junction of these two elements energy is singled out at a specific frequency range. We then siphon off the noise energy and use it to fill up a capacitor. When the capacitor gets enough of the energy stored, it triggers an SCR which sends that energy to an LED and the light blinks; thus converting the noise energy to light. Bingo, the noise is removed from the line." Tonight watching TV on the plasma. The Harvester ion the same duplex as the TV was going crazy. Steady blinking about 3/second.TV off. blinking stopped. (No other outlets affected, seems the Furman keeps the duplex separated electrically.) |
glupson. distance? no. The typical measurable radiation from standard unshielded AC lines has nothing to do with the Noise Harvester. The ’noise’ on the lines as mentioned can come from as far away as the separate dimmer controlled circuit in the bedroom, as mentioned at least 75 feet of wiring away, (and actual physical distance is a direct twenty feet, through a metal outlet box with a brass cover, through 3000 LP albums on the wall and the wall itself.) (and may een comefor a far greater distance. Distance seems to have no matter on the sort of high frequency hash riding the lines. Filters, like in the Furman conditioner, DO. For the plasma, the AC cord is two meters. The device only blinks if plugged into the AC duplex same as TV.Now the TV DOES radiate freestanding EMI which I can pick up with the Greelee detector in the air. But the Greelee picks up the same radiation (less intense perhaps) from ANY display, on equipment, laptop..The two types may be from the same cause, but the in the air are not what the Noise Harvester is working on. In general I have no need to be the ’spokesperson for PS Audio, though I want to clear up confusion, I have no interest is selling/shilling this product. That it seems to do something? yes, did it perform the miraculous cure of some ailment in my stereo? NO. Was I able to track down some AC garbage spewing offenders. YES. WOULD I BUY THEM AGAIN no. (since they show I have very little spew) But I can see where other folks with more AC garbage in the line would like to keep using them. You do not know until you try I guess. |
Geoff mentions: "" But RFI has many ways of getting into the system inckuding via the air and from RF produced by microchips. "" I would add that packing DAC and other HF producers, (if they do not get very hot anyway) Packing DAC with antistatic foam reduces the RFI re-entering the DAC chips etc and actually does reduce the noise in the audio signal. On my current Mrantz I see no need, but my previous DAC an Adcom Da700 (which was just as good as a Bryston highly praised DAC compared in my own system) Took a LOT of money to beat the Adcom WITH the antistatic foam mod. The black antistatic foam, not the blue. And since thefoam is electrically conductive, Imperative to protect the circuits from it touching them. And grounding the foam to the chassis. In the Adcom the chassis never got very warm, even with being packed with the foam. IF the unit does get very warm I would not do this mod to it. If I were rich and bored. I would make a flexible very thin non-conductive tray to fit various brand DAC units perfectly, and fill the tray with the foam and sell them. A vacuum table, borrowed unit to build a sample shape, and some wholesale 36"by 24" 1/8 and /4 inch foams and a ground.. |
If the Harvester stops blinking when you turn something off. Clearly that particular something is spewing HF junk into the line. I am going on the possible unmentioned ?fact? that the amps are plugged into the Furman? IF the amps are plugged into the wall.. Then yeah it is a mystery. If the amps are plugged into the wall, and not the Furman. Try unplugging everything else going into the Furman .. except the amps left on. Does the (still also plugged in and turned on) Furman Harvester still blink? Another crazy wild guess is the amps are sucking up whatever is on the line?? and when turned off that HF junk is free to wander. (if the amps use a digital switching power supply those do make HF noise) |
When I thought it was my conditioner, I found it was another bit of gear doing the damage (causing the blinking) It can be anything! Finding which items was on great thing about using the Noise Harvesters! I was able to find each offending item. Like you, but at first, I thought it was the small Adcom conditioner causing a problem. NO! It was an item connected to it. SO I would suggest the Furman is not the problem, but something plugged into it. The noise can travel a long way. Though I do find my Furman blocks from the small power to teh main power, but not between the individual small duplex. The Furman also block from outside, or from inside to outside it.PS: I made my own multiple outlets devices when I did not have enough outlets from the wall. From the wall is also from the wall to a pair of additional duplex!! |
The notion that one device, however expensive ( $2200.00 highly engineered Akiko Audio Corelli passive power conditioner) sets the bar for all others is an incorrect assumption. I have noticed that my Furman does stop the HF in the toroid transformer. So outside noise does not get in, and inside noise does not get out. Nor does the HF noise added to outlets in the High current get to the low, nor the reverse. The same is true for the normal transformer in the P-600 I own. The added notion that "" Any experimentation without a calibrated meter is merely guessing, wishful thinking and a waste of time ""Is perhaps closer to being partially true. However it certainly is NOT wholly true. The calibrated meter may AFFIRM what one has found without such a meter, but the experiments with the Noise Harvesters certainly do help one to know what is polluting, and when the blinking stops, that at least that part of the grunge has been located and separated from the system. But since the Noise Harvester is not a full range device (It is for 10,000Hz and above) a meter might be useful. Though not a ’requirement’ as kodak805 wishes to claim. |
With the maxim of all audiophiles: "Where you can spend a little, way better to spend a LOT" I suggest skipping the cheap $150 ’distortion’ gizmo, (which only selects a particular harmonic btw) And splurge twice that or three times that and buy a real oscilloscope from Amazon. Then you get the Whole Enchilada .. And you can analyze your power until the cows come home. ADDED: and for less money than $150... you can buy a USB oscilloscope for $80 or so. |
I bought five more. So with seven, I will see how it goes...Immediate impression is the background black is 'blacker'..Noticed watching PBS TV "Arthur" cartoon the smooth blobs of color are totally free of grain, perfectly smooth. Enough to note it.Treble seems a tiny bit sweeter in stereo. Little more detail in general. Two on amp line. three on Furman (One on high power, used for preamps, one at Plasma TV one at Marantz SA-10) , one on PS Audio P-600, and one at powercord to Furman.During normal stereo operation, only the one on PS Audio P-600 where five disc CD changer is blinking at all.Plasma TV turned on makes the two on Furman blink like crazy. IPlasma off no blinking) Dimmer in bedroom at half on only makes the amp line pair blink a little. I am of the opinion that even with no blinking, the Noise Harvesters may be doing something... |
I actually removed them and started over. 7 were too many, and the sound was a bit treble happy. I also decided to bond them to the duplex with BluTack. SO I added three. One to the PS Audio for the five disc changer. Two on the low level AC on Furman. Those 3 sounded really great. I tried one on the AC line the Furman REF 20 comes from. no, too much. Took it off. I added two to the separate line for the amplifier, also with BluTack, and the sound is still in the air. Cleaner, but slightly treble rich. But since I am actually listening to Classical music, which is often very treble rich.. I cannot make a snap judgement. With all the conditioning and such on my AC, seems I can hit ’Too many’ Noise Harvesters pretty easily. I can say 3 is very good. Plus if I like the sound but not the tilted a little to treble, I can adjust the resistors for thespeaker mids and bring it back to a better balance that way. Right now I have 0.75 DueLund Cast. I could easily go to a 1.0 ohm. or I have some 1.3 DueLund Cast too. |
Latest update in Noise Harvesters in my system. (It has become clear to me that the Noise Harvesters DO WORK and DO SOMETHING GOOD even when they are not blinking. Absolutely positive of this.) After some listening with five total in the system Excellent results. Stereo sounds very good. Better clarity ,dynamics, clean. I am VERY HAPPY I added them. NO need to adjust the balance of eh Magnepan 20.7 with resistors I think I am done. And curious the same number FIVE, as generally recommended. And I would say the BluTack CHANGES THE SOUND.. (Yes I hear the screeches and cries of all those skeptical types) and makes the sound less treble strong and makes the midrange better. Please since there is no backup on this tweak, I ask others who use Noise Harvesters to check it out with BluTack (or some other means of dampening the N.H. body) and report back. Otherwise it is just an untested tweak no one ever heard the likes of. Since the Noise harvesters are so ’loose’ when plugged in, they may be internally vibrating? and the BluTack quells this? I also remember another person mentioning adding Ers paper to the N.H. helped. (And I wonder if part of the ’help’ was not the sticky ERS paper but just dampening the body of the Noise Harvesters.???) |
Germs are just what we call 'bad' (or unhealthy to Humans) bacteria, Just so we all remember bacteria are 100% required for Human life. Without them (several POUNDS of them) in your gut, you could not survive. Be grateful for bacteria. we need them, they are our friends. Despite what the germ-phobic think. |
I've fiddled with my Noise Harvesters. I recently noticed my dealer has a 'Blue Horizons Mains Noise Analyser' I asked to borrow it, yes. All that is in another thread https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/ac-mains-noise-borrowed-noise-sniffer-and-tested-my-ac-lines Just mentioning here that I DID put the extra two PS Audio Noise Harvesters #6 and #7 back on the audio system. On the Furman line. And nearly all of the power cords are sorted out for best sound. |