Does anyone or does everyone pay retail price?

you are correct jea48, and there's the cost of the money(itself) they need to operate...same applies to manfacturers....and shipping is higher than ever too. when i worked for a manufacturer, our 'raw' cost of goods was about 20 percent of wholesale. the wholesale in turn was 50% off of retail. throw in all the above, as well as advertising co-op, marketing, travel to bs shows, mia gear, payments, etc, and you're lucky to keep your head above water.....the business was murder fifteen years ago, can't be anything but worse now. you really have to love it to hang in at any level.

That 40% mark-up that some talk about here forget just a few small expenses a B&M store has to contend with to keep his doors open.

* Rent on the building (can be a big cost.. Location, Location!)
* Utility bills
* Phone bill
* Yellow page ad in the phone book
* Fire content insurance premiums
* Liability insurance premiums
* Advertising expenses
* Fees paid to the accountant
* Possible interest $$ for Bank line of credit to buy inventory?
Many manufactures require payment up front before they will ship their merchandise. And of course that is plus shipping costs as well. So if the B&M store is of any real size he has to have a banker.
* Business permits, Fees, required by the city, and or state.

* Employee/s base wages
* Employee/s commissions (percentage $$ for selling an item)
* Employee State unemployment insurance
* Employee workman compensation insurance
* Matching FICA taxes on wages
* Any health benefits?
* Any paid holidays?
* something I probably left out....
* Owners wages?
* Owners health insurance premium?
_____________________________________
....... profit .........
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How could a dealer possibly give a 20% to 25% discount to every customer coming through his door?

There is a larger force at work...haven't you noticed anything a little...say...different lately?

Let's call him "Mr. Market".

Mr. Market doesn't care what your overhead is. Mr. Market doesn't care about your rent, your insurance, your utility bills, your employees salaries or their healthplans.

None of it.

In fact, Mr. Market is a pretty insensitive person. He doesn't care about anything. Mr. Market doesn't care if you can keep your house or even feed your family.

Mr. Market is going to give audio manufacturers, audio dealers and even private sellers of used gear on Agon a very uncomfortable lesson in Economics over the next few years.

We can choose to live in denial, but the fundamentals will win out every time.

I have paid retail but ... I have always received something in return !

Discounts can be hard to come by in some situations but incentives can be had in the form of on hand/in stock merchandise . I have received interconnects , speaker cables , speaker stands and CD's as a 'reward' for doing buisness with retailers .
It doesn't make a lot of sense but it works for me !

Good luck .

I think there may be a 'sample bias' issue here in that many Audiogon users actually use the commercial side of this website. As some mentioned, the 'installation' and design/customization business has grown significant, and effectively, those people 'pay retail', even if the equipment cost plus the time cost is less together than it would be separately because the dealer is effectively getting more money for his time than he would without the package. In addition, there are plenty of people who pay because their time is worth more than the difference when they kibbitz. They are happy to pay for great stereos, but they also have decided they do not need to spend a lot of time learning about it and feeding the habit. They have the money but not the time. There are times I wish I was in their shoes.

I paid retail for my ESP Bodhran SE speakers plus freight. They were custom built with my requested finish. So, it would be unlikely to receive a discount on a rare product custom built to your order. If I ever sell them, the next buyer will be getting the great deal.

I paid retail for my Cary Sli50 and don't regret doing so. Most of my other equipment i purchased used here on A-Gon so I got a good deal on those pieces.

If it's something you really want, I don't think it's wrong to pay retail. I often receive discounts from my local dealer, but I don't demand it.