@bri14mac Yes that's an option and then I'd just use an HDMI switcher. I've seen one at Amazon that has an optical audio output on the switch itself, that way I don't have to run a new 15 foot optical cable through the wall conduit to my TV. I can get that for $40, so having HDMI connections in the preamp isn't critical.
Does this exist? Preamp/Streamer/DAC with MQA, Roon and more
I'm looking for a particular set of features that seem to be very hard to find in a stereo (2.1) product. My budget is preferably around $2,500 but there is some flexibility. Here's what I would like:
Must have
-Preamp
-Network streamer
-DAC
-Roon endpoint
-MQA compatible (not interested in your opinion of MQA)
Want to have
-HDMI inputs/output for video switching only and 2 channel audio (to allow TV sound through stereo)
-Room correction
-Subwoofer management
I recently purchased the newly released NAD C658 which, when adding the optional HDMI module, covers every must have and want to have (Dirac room correction is coming in a later FW update) for a total of $1,800. Perfect! The problem is that so far the thing sounds lousy. I'm trying to let it burn in more and see if Dirac comes and makes it better, but it's not looking good after the first few days. The DAC seems to be the problem. It seems to suffer from audible time smearing and sounds too clinical and harsh so I am suspect about Dirac helping with that.
I've also seen the SimAudio Moon 390 but it's $5,300 and doesn't have room correction or subwoofer management. On the less expensive end, SimAudio also has the Moon Ace for $2,900 which has the same features as the 390, minus the HDMI inputs. I'd use the preouts to my own amp since the Ace is an integrated amp.
Then there is the Aurender A10. It costs even more than the Moon 390 and doesn't have HDMI inputs.
Cambridge Audio has some well regarded streamers but they aren't Roon compatible.
Finally, there is the PS Audio DirectStream and DirectStream Junior. I recently purchased the DSJr since it can be had close to my budget and while it sounds incredible as a streamer and DAC, it's not viable as a preamp. I spoke to PS Audio about this and they recommend using a separate preamp for the DS and especially for the Jr. I can't remember exactly why but they told me the signal to noise ratio when used straight into an amp wasn't ideal. I tested this myself and found that the DSJr sounded better even running through a Marantz AV receiver as preamp than it did straight into my amp (the receiver uses pre-outs to the same amp). I don't want to run a DSJr through a Marantz receiver and if I blow the budget on the DAC, I won't be able to get a capable preamp worthy of mating with it. Plus I'm really trying to get down to fewer boxes.
Are there any other options out there that I'm missing?
Must have
-Preamp
-Network streamer
-DAC
-Roon endpoint
-MQA compatible (not interested in your opinion of MQA)
Want to have
-HDMI inputs/output for video switching only and 2 channel audio (to allow TV sound through stereo)
-Room correction
-Subwoofer management
I recently purchased the newly released NAD C658 which, when adding the optional HDMI module, covers every must have and want to have (Dirac room correction is coming in a later FW update) for a total of $1,800. Perfect! The problem is that so far the thing sounds lousy. I'm trying to let it burn in more and see if Dirac comes and makes it better, but it's not looking good after the first few days. The DAC seems to be the problem. It seems to suffer from audible time smearing and sounds too clinical and harsh so I am suspect about Dirac helping with that.
I've also seen the SimAudio Moon 390 but it's $5,300 and doesn't have room correction or subwoofer management. On the less expensive end, SimAudio also has the Moon Ace for $2,900 which has the same features as the 390, minus the HDMI inputs. I'd use the preouts to my own amp since the Ace is an integrated amp.
Then there is the Aurender A10. It costs even more than the Moon 390 and doesn't have HDMI inputs.
Cambridge Audio has some well regarded streamers but they aren't Roon compatible.
Finally, there is the PS Audio DirectStream and DirectStream Junior. I recently purchased the DSJr since it can be had close to my budget and while it sounds incredible as a streamer and DAC, it's not viable as a preamp. I spoke to PS Audio about this and they recommend using a separate preamp for the DS and especially for the Jr. I can't remember exactly why but they told me the signal to noise ratio when used straight into an amp wasn't ideal. I tested this myself and found that the DSJr sounded better even running through a Marantz AV receiver as preamp than it did straight into my amp (the receiver uses pre-outs to the same amp). I don't want to run a DSJr through a Marantz receiver and if I blow the budget on the DAC, I won't be able to get a capable preamp worthy of mating with it. Plus I'm really trying to get down to fewer boxes.
Are there any other options out there that I'm missing?
Showing 17 responses by jnehma1
HDMI is desirable since there is a TV in the family room along with my stereo setup. Ideally I would use the same speakers for the TV sound. All I need is a place to run my HDMI sources through. It doesn’t need to do any processing, just capture the audio and switch between the sources. An HDMI switcher with an optical output to send 2-channel audio into a preamp/DAC costs $40 on Amazon. Not sure why that should add a great deal to the cost of a product, but that’s why it’s on the want list, not the must have list. I can just buy the $40 box. I’m not that concerned about ultimate fidelity of the TV sound anyway. I don’t agree that it should be hard to find everything in the must have list. The PS Audio DSJr meets everything on the must have list except being a good preamp. I’d take some loss in sound quality for added preamp functionality. The NAD I bought meets everything on both lists. If I add $1k to the cost of that product, shouldn't I be able to get better performance? Thanks for the Mytek suggestion. The new Brooklyn Bridge model is $3k and covers the full must have list so I need to check it out a bit more. |
@david_ten Feedback is appreciated. Although if $2,500 buys a very good receiver, why can it not buy what I'm looking for if you remove the 7 (or 9 or 11) channels of amplification and all of the fancy video processing and Dolby/DTS/whatever audio modes? Anyway, let's just remove the budget constraint altogether. Does anyone even make this product because it seems demand is there. I've seen quite a few people mention how the NAD C658 is the exact device they've been waiting on for years (myself included). So Mytek has something similar for $3k and Moon has something similar for $5,300. Are there any other options at any other price that are based on stereo not 9/11/16 home theater channels? |
@audiotroy Thanks for the feedback. No dealer near me so I ordered it from Crutchfield without any prior demo. I have the NAD running into a 250wpc Musical Fidelity a308cr power amp. I’m using DH Labs Air Matrix interconnects and I don’t recall the speaker cables. Speakers are older Monitor Audio Gold bookshelves (dome tweeter, before they switched to ribbons). The clinical/harsh sound quality I described is also echoed by almost every other owner in the AVS Forum thread for the C658. But I am definitely open to any tips that might improve the situation. The product has every feature I need and want, so I REALLY want to like it. I’m just somewhat doubtful that switching from a $4k Musical Fidelity amp to a NuForce is going to be the solution. If only things were that easy, right! :-) |
@audiotroy Fair enough, I appreciate the input and I'm willing to try anything once. But my hesitation that the Nuprime is a panacea is two-fold. First, everyone in the NAD658 owners thread on AVSForum is describing the exact same sound (one guy even returned his already). Second, when I connected a PS Audio DSJr through a Marantz AV receiver as preamp, then to the exact same Musical Fidelity amp and Monitor Audio speakers, the sound was GLORIOUS in comparison to the NAD. |
Just ran into a brand I never heard of called DEQX. Thought I would share here in case anyone else was interested. They have a couple devices (PreMate Plus and HDP-5) that meet all my must have criteria except MQA, but also have room correction and subwoofer management. Not cheap ($5k and up) but I had never heard of them so wanted to share. I appreciate everyone's feedback |
@audiotroy I only used the Marantz in conjunction with the PS Audio DAC since it needed a preamp to be most effective. The NAD runs straight into my amp. Power conditioning is from a PS Audio Quintessence and the power cord is a Pangea AC14XL Mk II that I recently picked up to test out. The power conditioner is plugged into the wall in a PS Audio Power Port outlet. |
@rbstehno I'm gravitating in that direction. I already sold the PS Audio DAC but could buy another one. Interesting that their other preamp (the Stellar, I'm not counting the BHK due to budget) is also a preamp/DAC, so I wonder if that one really does work well as a preamp or not. @drumnman2 Do you own the 658? Any listening impressions? @golfmatchplayer The Oppo 205 looks pretty good but is discontinued and now people are asking 3x the MSRP for used ones. At the moment I don't really need any analog inputs because all stereo listening is through Roon streaming and TV audio is HDMI through a few sources (Bluray, Roku, Chromecast) that would probably just all be fed to the DAC from the TV via a single optical cable. Having an analog input or two would be nice for flexibility but isn't a requirement right now. |
@firstonetallguy I have two Marantz receivers in the house, both of which have only ever been used as processors (I use the pre-outs to separate amps). I don't know which DAC is in your 7703 versus the two receivers I have but I connected the PS Audio through both of them and the improvement was easily noticeable. It wasn't like oh my god night and day, but I could definitely hear improvements. Much better bass and mid-bass quality, a bit more clarity and resolution, a bit more air. I use Tidal via Roon so first off, it sounded much better via the PS Audio simply because it streams at full quality. The Marantz products aren't Roon Ready so I had to stream to them using Airplay, which downsamples everything to 48khz/16bit. But I also loaded some of my FLAC files to a USB stick and plugged that into one of the receivers. Playing those files through the HEOS app sounded MUCH better than the same song via Airplay. In fact, that difference was even greater than the one between the PS Audio and the USB stick through HEOS. But for real A/B comparisons, I skipped Airplay and just compared the USB stick through the receiver DAC against Roon streaming through the PS Audio. Whether the cost is worth the difference is an individual question. MQA files, which only the PS Audio supports, sounded especially good so for me the improvement in quality across the board plus the added benefit of MQA made the PS Audio worth it. But I started getting upgraditis really badly and decided it would be better to sell the PS Audio and get the NAD as a simpler solution (I have a 4 year old and can't really set up a great system without putting it at risk of toddler-destruction). I'm starting to regret that decision... |
@edsky Thanks for the feedback. Unless I am missing something though, there's no difference between what you described with Audirvana and what I can do today with Roon. In either case, the software does the first unfold but since my receiver is not MQA compatible, it wouldn't be able to do the final decode. @mbolek Anxious to hear your feedback regarding the M10 and the T758. I don't know anything about the Emotiva speakers but assuming by your response that they are active. Do you have any passive speakers to test? |
@edsky Initially I had the Marantz receiver in the family room due to the need for dual purpose with tv viewing. I run the preouts to my Musical Fidelity amp, so the receiver just acts as a preamp and DAC. I purchased the NAD to replace the receiver as a better preamp and DAC, plus give me direct Roon streaming rather than Airplay. I don’t plan to setup an HT bypass since the family room is just a 2.1 setup. I have a separate media room with surround sound. |