Fidelity Research FR-64x

@offnon57 

 Fidelity Research FR-64x.....(with silver wire )

Do you mean FR-64s ? But the "s" is not necessary silver wire, it can be copper wire. When the wire is silver there is a sticker on the art "silver wire inside" or something like that.  

I bought FR-64fx toneam (the black one) with heavy counterweight W-205. We will see how it works with my FR-7f cartridge. I'm gonna try my FR PMC-3 cartridge as well, but maybe i will need a lighter counterweight which i don't have (looking for one). 

I'm not a fan of the silver wire, in my opinion copper wire is always better.

 

@nandric what is the benefits of stainless steel ? 
I use inexpensive stainless steel PANs when i'm cooking on gas and i love it, but why it's better for tonearms? Just more weight?

My Lustre GST-801 also made of stainless steel, i believe. It was easy to rewire it with brand new discovery toneam copper wires (the original silver wire was broken and does not impressed me much, too old). 

    

If anyone missed Fremer’s SME tour: https://youtu.be/usXKl8p6kuk
Fast forward to 31:23 to watch Brian Laker (service manager) talking about new and very old SME models.
They use magnesium for arm wands on the top models. 

@offnon57 

 I bought the Pink Triangle for $150 locally in Hicksville LI back in the days when you could find stuff in Newsday classifieds almost everyday.
The guy I bought it from kept his arm but hooked
me up to another guy for the Fidelity Research, for another $150

Amazing, nowadays they are up to 2k on ebay

The aesthetics is very important for me, i can’t ignore it, the SME 309 and SME V are the ugliest tonearms in my opinion, every turntable with this arms looks awful. Well, i’m talking about the design, but not the quality of those arm, i’m sure they are high quality tonearms, but i love vintage tonearms not only because they are good, but also because i appretiate design of those classic gear. For the same reason i hate most of the modern turntables and most of the modern tonearms. I can’t deal with expensive stuff if i don’t like the design (color, shape etc). It is not important for everyone, but for me it is very important. Even the old SME are not my kind of tonearms, but they are closer to what i like aesthetically (except the one SME made for high compliance carts).

Yes, my interest in FR64fx is mainly for Fidelity-Research cartridges such as FR-7f and PMC-3 (and also the best SPU Royal with Replican 100 stylus which i am selling).

For "normal" cartridges i’m happy with my Reed 3p "12 Cocobolo - this tonearm is hard to beat, but it’s not good idea to swap the cartridges every week.

The Technics EPA-100mk2 is another one from my arsenal, but damn, it’s impossible to mount it on Luxman PD-444, the vta on the fly mechanism makes this arm too high in the lowest possible position. So i will have to use it on SP-10mkII or on Victor TT-101 later on. Maybe i need tonearm pod.

@nandric 

I owned all Reed versions because the designer/

owner was my friend.

He was or he is your friend ?
I went to Lithuania to meet with Reed people to buy my tonearm, it was a demo version, headshell is different from later versions, but you're right - it is not designed to swap cartridges quickly, but i'm trying to use it as reference with carefully selected cartridge. I do swap carts on some other tonearms to compare the sound to Reed. The last cartridge that was absolutely fantastic on Reed is the original (old) Garrott P77. I sold my teak wood plinth for SP-10mkII and now my Technics is in the dark corner on Audio-Technica pneumatic suspension insulators AT-616 (the big ones), but without tonearm. 

I'm gonna mount my Reed 3P on Luxman PD-444 turntable soon. 

@nandric

Your Lustre 801 has only the (thin) armwand made from steel.

Right, Lustre GST-801 Vibration-proofing of stainless steel arm-pipe. The rest composed of brass parts with huge stabilizer. I enjoyed this arm pretty much with various MM cartridges (Pioneer PC1000 mkII was great along with At-ML180), it’s the heavyest tonearm i have ever owned, low compliance MC carts (FR-7f and SPU Royal G MKII) were both fantastic.

@offnon57 I think this GST-801 is alternative to FR-64S with silver wire. Lustre GST-801 comes with silver wire too. The Lustre GST-801 is the first dynamic balance tone arm with contactless stylus force application system.

This Lustre's unique variable magnetic flux type stylus force application system is a magnetic contactless system of compact and simple construction using a rare earth magnet. Features high Precision radial bearings. VTA on the fly, Magnetic flux type anti-skating mechanism.

I’m waiting for my FR-64FX to try.

Meanwile the Lustre arm migrated to another home in my neighbourhood. It will be mounted on Technics SP-20 for a friend. This is my last picture of the Lustre 801.

@nandric it's too complicated to make parts for tonearm, but i have additional original counterweight and ringweight for Lustre GST-801 owners if anyone need it. I'm moving on, 64FX is my new tonearm with W250 heavy counterweight (but i'm looking for light original counterweight too). 

I’m playin with my Fidelity-Research FR-64FX for a few days. I like this tonearm, it’s my first Fidelity-Research tonearm and with W-250 counterweight it works just fine with my FR-7f cartridge. The arm is easy to set up, the VTA is not "on the fly", but still easy to adjust, the tracking force is easy to adjust too. I like the black color of this combo (arm and cartridge). There is no disadvantages of FR-64FX compared to my ex Lustre GTS-801.

I use FR-64fx on Luxman PD-444 with FR-7f cartridge and Luxman AD8000 + 8030 Toroidal Silver SUT for low impedance cartridges (2-3 Ohm). Zu Audio Mission Phono MKII cable with WBT nextgen RCAs and my new Stereovox HDSE cables between the SUT and my JLTi phono stage.

Also my new First Watt F2J current source power amp for crossover-less speakers (and my First Watt B1 passive buffer peamp) giving me tremendous resolution i have never heard before in my system!

I think i will have to sell (to a friend) my WLM Minueta tube push-pull class A to justify my expenses on First Watt gear. But i will be missing silky bass of my belowed tube integrated with NOS vintage Telefunken valves.

At the moment i have no tubes in my system, Raul must be happy, lol 

@lewm

Nelson Pass is one of the greats in modern audio design; I have long had curiosity about his First Watt products, but none of those amplifiers were powerful enough to run my Sound Lab speakers.

My situation is totally different, his F2J current source power amp was designed only for full range drivers and with my 101db Zu Audio Druid i have so much power that i use only10-20% of the volume control on First Watt B1 passive preamp. F2J has only 5 watt at 8 ohm, but my speakers are 16 ohm, so i think i have only 3-4 watts power with them. It’s nice to realize that with my speakers i can live with 3 watts or even lower. Class A circuits (no feedback), he made only 100 units.

@sampsa55

Good to hear you’re enjoying it. Have you tried other cartridges? How do you like it compared to other tonearms?

I think it’s a great combination, what i’ve noticed is the Stevenson alignment of FR-7f on FR-64fx tonearm when i set up pivot to spindle distance with Feickert protracktor on my LUX 444. I’m gonna play with it for a few weeks, then i’m gonna swap my FR-7f with Ortofon SPU Royal G mkII with Replicant 100, they are almost identical in settings of the arm. But i can not use any lighter carts on my FR-64fx, because i have one one counterweight (w-250) designed for superheavy cartridges (30-32g). I think i prefer this FR tonearm compared to Lustre GST-801 which was also very good.

Last night i decided to remove Luxman SUT and ZYX Headamp from the chain and connected FR-7f directly to my JLTi phono stage. I enjoyed the quality and with this combo i can turn the volume up a bit on my passive pre, i think my ex low power tube push-pull amp was not right for this combo. So with First Watt gear i can use very low output cartridges without thinking of the volume pot (when it was too high on tube amp).

I realized 1000k ohm loading was more pleasant for FR-7f than 100 Ohm or 47k Ohm. But i need more time to play with it.

@nandric 

The conclusion of them both was , in short, that FR-64 FX is a '' poor man FR-64 S ''.

poor me :)) 
appart from this review we know nothing about comparison between two models, beside the fact that FX is more flexible in term of effective mass and can be lighter when needed (but still can accommodate FR-7f or SPU). 

@nandric

... the first recommendation was to change Stevenson in Baerwald geometry. I have no idea why the most Japanese tonearms followed Stevenson. To get Baerwald the spindle-pivot distance need to be increased to 231.5 mm which result in eff. length of 246 mm.

In my case it’s the other way around, to set-up Baerwald (instead of Steventon) we have to move the arm closer to the spindle for a few mm (or to move the cartridge forward in the shell). Pivot to spinde distance on FR-64FX is 230mm, i use Dr.Feickert protractor, so i can chose Baerwald, Loefgren or Stevenson. Ikeda-San use Stevenson for this tonearm by default with correct pivot to spinde distande (230mm). The Stevenson points are closer to the spindle than Baerwald points. So when i put the needle to the Baerwald, without changind pivot to spinde distance, i have my needle a few mm behind the Baerwald points, which means the 230mm is too much (and must the shortened by a few mm).

You said it must be increased from 230 to 231.5 as your German reviewers said, but it must be shortened to about 228 as i can see to set up tonearm by Baerwald with Feickert protractor (which is a great, precision tool).

P.S. I use Stevenson by default with several tonearms, no problem with that.

@rauliruegas i like this italic font you're using 

You left go a way superior tonearm in favor of your " new kid " FR. Well, I know that you are a seller too. Good. A seller of what? My own cartridges and stuff in upgrading process? As much as you and others.  

My Lustre goes to an old friend in the neighbourhood, i'm very positive about FR64fx with FR-7f, can't do anything about it. 

Makes no sense to use Stevenson A: higher distortions all over the LP surface in favor of WHAT.

If favor of "7 inch records as one of the reason, they are much smaller than "12 inch, and all musical information located as close to the spingle as the last track on LP surface. Less distortion in this particular area is more important than in the area outide of the '7 inch circle. But Stevenson was more concerned about classical music where crescendos moment (the most complex passages) located towards the inner side of the record. It's here in theory paragraph

If we want Löfgren A alignment in a FR tonearm using the FR effective length 245 spec then the P2S distance must be: 228.137mm , overhang : 16.863mm with an offset angle: 22.421°

@nandric correct, i trust my eyes, you should try feickert 
First points of loefgren and baerwald are so close to each other, so roughly 228 +/- is pivot to spindle distance if we don't use stevenson method. 

Just noticed there was a silver color FR-64FX , never seen it before 

@invictus005 I have all kinds of tonearm (super light, mid, heavy mass) for my academic research.

Actually FR-64fx is not heavy mass, it's even said "low mass dynamic balanced tonearm", unless you're using W-250 counterweight with FR-7f cartridge (or SPU). Same with Lustre GST-801 with its 3 different counterweights, or AudioCraft tonearms etc. 

For me everything FR related started with FR-5e MM cartridge, then FR-6se MM, then PMC-3 LOMC, and finally FR-7f LOMC praised by my rich buddy Nandric. This old and heavy monster with original LineContact stylus (in perfect condition) is something special. I think FR-7f sounds better on FX tonearm, but maybe my 64FX is in better condition than my ex Lustre 801 which was nice for my MM cartridges like Pioneer PC-1000 mkII or AT-ML series. The FR-64fx tonearm is primary for FR-7f cart in my system. 

I want to keep two different arms on each turntable, light mass with MM and high mass with MC to learn more about different concepts. 

@rauliruegas

Well, 99.9999% of the audiophiles in the world always listen the normal LPs not 7"inch records.

I don’t care about audiophiles with their reissues, CDs or files.
There is a certain kind of record collectors who’re mainly into 45s (7inch singles), because most of the music from the 60s/70s on 45s (7 inch) never released on LPs.

I also like LPs, but i’m not a typical audiophile, i believe. I came from record collectors world and i used to play my records in public for 20 years, also on radiostations. The 45s is my main format when i’m playing here or abroad, they are easy to carry (one song per side).

BTW the old Technics standard is very close to Stevenson, i think they are still using the same 52mm plastic gause for the GAE tonerms? If the arm geometry is the same as the old SL1200mkII series, then we got almost Stevenson on GAE? Or did they change it to Baerwald?

It's always funny when you guys can comment on something you never owned, that's the quietest amp combo i have ever heard with the highest resolution ever, killer dynamics, it's pretty real presentation. But you're talking about noise and Raul is always about distortion. 

I believe Nelson Pass knows his stuff! 

Normally i prefer to use manufacturer recommendations first, then i need some time get used to the sound, then i can make changes (maybe). But i can't hear any single problem with Stevenson for FR-7f, at the moment FR64fx + RF-7f is a great combination. What i realized is thast my new First Watt F2J power amp and First Watt B1 passive preamp makes huge different compared to my tube gear i used before. The resolution is so high, First Watt gear must be neutral, tube gear was colored (i believe). Even my belowed WLM Phonata mm/mc phono stage sounds completely different with new First Watt amps. It was much darker with tube gear, but with high resolution First Watt gear it's just great. 

@invictus005 First Watt B1 is a passive buffer preamp to solve impedance issues, but it has no active gain. It has no sound signature, just the link between your source and power amp. 

Raul, i have various tonearm and some of them designed with Baerwald like my Reed 3p "12, some of the others i can readjust easily with my Feickert. But as i said, i trust manufacturers. For example SONY PUA-7 has its own geometry and its own protractor, look here. I’m not so paranoic about distortion level in my system, but i want to learn (and i want to hear) why one geometry is better than another one. I have time to learn this process slowly with different arms and cartridges. If it’s clear for you it’s not clear for me yet.

Have you ever read Stevenson’s explanation about his method ?

P.S. Passive amps is easy to check for coloration, we can simply connect our source directly to the power amp to play some quiet tune, then we can add preamp in between to compare the sound signature. If we don’t need a buffer to solve impedance mismatch then there is even simplified device like the LightSpeed Attenuator. Using devices like First Watt B1 or LightSpeed Attenuator with a proper power amp we can save at least $2000 on active gain preamps. I like this concept, but i never tried the LightSpeed Attenuator, i use First Watt B1 passive buffer preamp. 

Forget about your gain, we use phono preamps as a source with super efficient speakers, all we actually need is a volume control between phono preamp and power amp, if there is no impedance mismatch. I use a buffer (with volume control) to avoid impedance mismatch, but people who uses LightSpeed Attenuator are not stupid.

@nandric haha, you make me laugh :) 

@invictus005 You’re right it’s a buffer, but it has no active gain!

I think you should read this thread first before talking about true passive preamps. Some users sold their $8k active preamps for passive $450 Lightspeed attenuator.

But I’m talking about Nelson Pass gear, i hope you know who it is and maybe you’re familiar with his innovative design of the amps.

We're going off topic here, i'm not gonna discuss it here

About First Watt B1:

"This suggests the possibility of using a high quality buffer in conjunction with a volume control. A buffer is still an active circuit using tubes or transistors, but it has no voltage gain – it only interposes itself to make a low impedance into a high impedance, or vice versa.

If you put a buffer in front of a volume control, the control’s low impedance looks like high impedance. If you put a buffer after a volume control, it makes the output impedance much lower. You can put buffers before and after a volume control if you want.

The thing here is to try to make a buffer that is very neutral. Given the simple task, it’s pretty easy to construct simple buffers with very low distortion and noise and very wide bandwidth, all without negative feedback." -Nelson Pass

You’d better join the lightspeed thread to get the answer from the manufacturer or from the users.

What i don’t need is gain, even FW b1’s volume control set up no more than 9’oclock in my system, the sencitivity of my full range drivers is 101db. I have killer gain already with my First Watt F2J current source power amp. This is a way different compared to my ex push-pull integrated tube amp.

btw: this FW F2J power amp is not a "voltage amp", but a "current amp" for crossover-less speakers only. I'm blown away by its performance with my Zu Audio Druid speakers. 

Sony PUA-7 does not fit to any alignments on my Feickert, so they use a different alignment for this tonearm. It is not Stevenson, Baerwald or Lofgren. If it was Stevenson then it must be dead on on Feickert’s Stevenson (with correct pivot to spindle distance), but it’s not. You know why? Because Sony protractor is different. I have the original one, not a printed copy or something. I know what i’m talking about, you’d better check it yourself in reality.

@rauliruegas 

Because you have a different P2S mount distance. Try this: forgeret about the Sony protrcator and mount the PUA 7 at 235mm from the spindle and your Feickert protractor will works with any alignment you want.  

That's was my point from the start to tell you that SONY PUA-7 geometry is unique, the pivot to spindle distance is about 221mm and special template provided with the arm to set it up like that. It's was off from well know 3 alignment methods and we're talking about big difference. 

You see 221mm and 235mm is not the same, it's a bid difference. 

What makes SONY corporation develope their own protractor if they could stick to the old Baerwald? 

@invictus005 

You remind me a soft of the dudes Nelson Pass is talking about, here is a quote: 

So here we are in the New Millennium, and thanks to Tom Holman and THX we’ve got lots of gain in our electronics. More gain than some of us need or want. At least 10 db more.

Think of it this way: If you are running your volume control down around 9 o’clock, you are actually throwing away signal level so that a subsequent gain stage can make it back up.

Routinely DIYers opt to make themselves a “passive preamp” - just an input selector and a volume control.

What could be better? Hardly any noise or distortion added by these simple passive parts. No feedback, no worrying about what type of capacitors – just musical perfection.

And yet there are guys out there who don’t care for the result. “It sucks the life out of the music”, is a commonly heard refrain (really - I’m being serious here!). Maybe they are reacting psychologically to the need to turn the volume control up compared to an active preamp.

I suppose if I had to floor the accelerator to drive 55 mph, maybe I’d think the life was being sucked out of my driving. Then again, maybe I like 55. Nice and safe, good gas mileage…

Is impedance matching an issue? Passive volume controls do have to make a trade-off between input impedance and output impedance. If the input impedance is high, making the input to the volume control easy for the source to drive, then the output impedance is also high, possibly creating difficulty with the input impedance of the power amplifier. And vice versa: If your amplifier prefers low source impedance, then your signal source might have to look at low impedance in the volume control.... 

@invictus005

Nelson doesn't sell passive preamps nor makes them. He only sells active preamps. B1 buffer was meant for DIY amateurs. People who actually design circuits laugh at passive preamps.

Are you talking about Nelson Pass new stuff?
You should know that he makes 100 units of whatever model and then it’s out of production. Each model is different all the time. All his stuff available for DIY community, he provides all info for DIYers. So ALL his amps can be made by DIYers including B1 or any super expensive models of power amps etc, but i have the originals made by Nelson Pass.

Remember Pass Labs ALEPH L ?
Two different versions were made, first one was 100% passive, second version was a combination of passive + active circuit. The active has been used ONLY when you need it, so the last Aleph L became active depends on the position of the volume control knob.

It seems like you don’t understand that there is no universal solution, everything depends on our systems. You, like Raul, pretends on absolute opinion, that’s very bad!

@rauliruegas

Dear @chakster : Your Sony tonearm normally was coming integrated to the Sony TT PSX series ( 70,60,50. ) and that’s why came with that protractor. It’s really weird to find out a stand alone unit like yours.

My Sony PUA-7 tonearm is stand alone version with an integrated armlift, not a turntable integrated cheaper version. Yeah, i know it's very rare! 

@lewm 

 I recalled that I used the Feickert protractor for alignment after setting the P2S at 231.5mm. Set to the Baerwald scale on the Feickert.

with conventional headshell, not with the FR-7f cartridge
right? 

I got my FR-64s from the postman today. Soon i’ll be able to compare FR64fx side to side to FR-64s. Both arms are in perfect condition, but my 64fx is almost like new. I’ve been using my FR64fx with original W-250 (30mm long) superheavy counterweight, this weight does not comes with the arm, it must be purchased separately and it’s extremely rare.

The weight which i got on FR-64s is smaller (25mm long), probably it’s not the heaviest among those 3 different weight designed for FR-64s tonearm? Is that a medium weight @nandric ?

I have not mounted FR-64s, but what i can say immediately from the first look is that the armbase design of the 64s is awful compared to the beautiful 64fx armbase !

1) The base of 64fx is much bigger and thicker, it has two screws that does not require any tool to adjust/fix VTA of the tonearm quickly and easily. Actually there is no need for optional B-60 for 64fx!

2) The 64fx armbase has 3 vertical screws (tiangle) goes throught it to fix the armbase to the turntable base. The 64s does not have anything like that!

3) Then there is a huge nut under the base on 64fx. The nut of the 64s is much smaller and if we don’t have super expensive optional VTA on the fly base (B-60 for 64s) then mounting process is completely different compared to the 64fx tonearm.

4) Basically the 64s has some sort of thick washer and nut to fix the arm, the VTA can be fixed with two screws, but only with a tool. While the 64fx can be easily fixed manually first and then tighten up with a tool.

5) Tracking force ring on 64fx is much better! This ring works like an expensive safe lock, the movement of the ring is fixed step by step while the tracking force ring on the 64s has free smoth movement.

6) Curved pad of the armlift on 64fx is metal, while this pad on 64s is plastic (too bad).


*** In my opinion the Fidelity-Research FR-64fx toneam build quality and usability is much better than 64s ! Many mechanical things were improved on "fx" version. The FR 64fx tonearm is more user friendly for sure.

** Now i understand why each owner of the 64s is looking for B-60, but the owners of the 64fx shouldn’t worry about it.

* Later i will check is it true that 64s has better sonics than 64fx, but at the moment my choice is 64fx for many reasons described above.

@nkj nice, i wish i could add that B-60 base and N-60 stabilizer to 64s.
The 64fx is good as it is, in its stock condition.

I use Stevenson geometry with my FR-64fx + FR-7fz cartridge, as recommended by the manufacturer (Ikeda San). With this cartridge you can not change the geometry as you simply can’t twist the cartridge in the "headshell". With conventionel cartridge you can change the geometry, but not with a headshell integrated FR-7 series.

@nandric 

Could you measure your counterweight ?
The one i have with my 64s is 25mm long (side measurement) and this is definitely not the smallest one. 

Thanks, so i'm fine
I was worried because the black W-250 (250g) for "fx" version is 30mm long, but i think it's different material.