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Finding the 'weakest link' when upgrading?

Being able to find the weakest link when upgrading is really, really important.
Otherwise a different new component may never really be able to show how it is better. Since the other ’weak’ component(s) is(are) masking the new components better sound.

This is a difficult problem.

My best example is not exactly about the least sound quality, but it may show something about it.
I upgraded a good portion of my equipment all at once when I retired. And I still had in my system an old DAC I bought used. When I received most of the new components (including new preamp, new amp, new speakers and a new turntable and cartridge), I was comparing my old DAC with the new one. And found no sonic difference. I mean I tried every way I could and could not hear any difference between them/ So either I just wasted $25,000 for nothing or?? I was very frustrated.
Anyway, after three weeks I got another new bit which had to be ordered and built
.
When I plugged in the phono box, an epiphany and a flood ot tears.. My $25,000 of new equipment really was better. Since the phono box sounded glorious, thus it made it clear all the rest of the system WAS NOT holding back the new DAC. That new DAC was actually just not any better than my old one. And I returned it.

And unless I just happened to acquire that new phono box a week later, I would have been stumped why the new DAC (which was praised to the skies by both Stereophile and TAS) was not doing better.
I was seriously bummed and confused about wasting a ton of money... until I played the new phono box.

Now it was kind of odd that the two DACs, one, used for $250 )it’ original list price was $1,000) and the other $2,400 and 12 years newer) could sound so alike. But chance happened. (And toss in the official guru magazine praise with it all)
==================================================================

Anyway, how do we find the right part to upgrade? Since making the wrong choice can leave one in the same boat I was in back in my example? (at least until I got the phono box)

I do not have an answer. and I ask.. does anyone?
For me it is just kind of a sixth sense, with little real science to it.

In general I have been kind of lucky.
But how do I know I have managed well?

I do not know.
It has been better more often than not.
(Though I have made a few really terrible choices over many years now and then. Costly choices)

Anyway, my question is how do you make the choice of what to upgrade?
How do you know or decide which is you weakest component?

And do you agree finding the weakest component is really important in the path of upgrading, or one might be making expensive mistakes buying gear, or trying gear? (which may really be great, yet you cannot hear it due to some other weak links in the chain? And though I hate to say so, this weak link may even be cables, or powercords or even the AC from the wall*.

*(but please do not get into a big theory arguments about interconnects and powercords and power conditioners.) Stick to the main topic of knowing how to find the weakest link.
elizabeth
itsjustme
91 posts
 
I don't think, (maybe its just hope) anyone is saying that a component is a bottleneck a 'la something in a computer -- but it is certainly true that every component degrades the sound, and one can degrade more than its share. I actually had this discussion with a potential investor who recoiled at the idea of being honest and saying "excellent components don't improve the sound, the best ones simply muck up the sound the least".  He decided that was a lousy marketing message :-)

But its true.  Now, one way that they *can* seem to be a bottleneck is that, once lost, detail, time coherence, low noise, whatever - are lost for good. And in thoery we can trace the signal to that point. If one component is dis proportionally contributing - it is therefore the weak link, the bottleneck, whatever. Pedantics don't matter.

As discussed somewhere here recently, there's also the issue of matching - especially important things like amp output characteristics to the startlingly variant impedance characteristics of many speakers.  Some speakers maintain a fairly constant (say over 4 ohms and below 10 ohms) load. Vandy 2C whatevers for example.  Easy. Drive them with a 20 watt integrated.  Others are nightmares that, at some frequencies and at some part of the woofer travel, are reverse EMF machines.  Some chape speakers used to be very hard to drive, but normally were bought with cheap amps. Bad combo.

Another classic is cartridge compliance to tonearm mass, or cartridge frequency response (flat, unlikely) to speaker frequency response (ditto). It might be best to plot and add them. Then throw in the room (double ditto) to make the headache worse.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
14,147 posts
 
The primary reason I went from a Class A all-tube headphone amp, Sennheiser 600 and Uber modded Oppo 102 to a much simpler, very low power, ultra lightweight system - a paradigm shift and a half - was to avoid as much as possible the pitfalls (I.e., distortion and noise) inherent in the components and cabling of any convention system. So my new paradigm shifter set-up completely avoids House AC and power cords, interconnects, speaker cables, big honking transformers, fuses, miles of wire (thus avoiding the whole wire directionality issue almost entirely), crossovers, capacitors, even AC ground. Also, the new set-up, since it’s a headphone system, completely avoids the multitude of distortions produced by room acoustic issues. If thy eye offend thee pluck it out. 👀
inna
5,245 posts
 
You said it yourself, my lady, it is "sixth sense".  But to give that sense a hand - one should have a very strong source and very good wall current. Personally, I also try to keep cables one or two steps ahead of the rest. And I jump when upgrading not moving in small steps.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
phil0618
38 posts
 
Been mulling this over for a couple days.

If what many of us believe is true -
1. That pretty much everything can make a difference in perceived sound, and
2. Components interact and need to be matched to a system

Then except in the rare case where one component is clearly inferior, how could you really know? It seems there are too many component combinations and permutations to really know precisely what might be the weak link. In some cases I suppose you could apply some math - looking for things like underpowered amplifiers, impedance mismatches, compliance and other things I am not qualified to speak on.

Ironically, if you published the list of components in your system and asked people to comment on what they thought the weakest link was I’m sure you would get many opinions. And many of them spoken with authority. This despite the fact that the majority of people would not be familiar with each piece of equipment in your list, and even less likely - in your room.

The net is that I think it’s trial error. And to me that means doing research and searching for good deals on Audiogon and elsewhere so that I can afford to bring the equipment into my home to try it, and if I don’t like it I hopefully sell it for nothing more than a small loss.

I think the ultimate standard is are you happy with the sound? At least on a temporary basis. You have the knowledge that it could be better, but that will take more time and money to pursue, but hopefully in the mean time you can enjoy both the music and the pursuit of your particular brand of audio perfection.

What was striking about Elizabeth’s original post was that she invested big money in equipment she knew/thought to be quite good and yet she was dissatisfied with the system at the outset. That’s discouraging and luckily she got it sorted in a way that made her happy. But how was she to know what the ultimate solution was?  The other interesting thing is that she seemed to base her decision at least in part on the recommendation of audio reviewers which we've all been cautioned about, but is still often a factor in buying decisions.

In the end, I think the lack of certainty about how components add or subtract from the sound is just part and parcel to the hobby of audio. If you like experimenting and tweaking that’s a blessing, for others a curse.

ivan_nosnibor's avatar
ivan_nosnibor
782 posts
 
@phil0618

"What was striking about Elizabeth’s original post was that she invested big money in equipment she knew/thought to be quite good and yet she was dissatisfied with the system at the outset. That’s discouraging and luckily she got it sorted in a way that made her happy. But how was she to know what the ultimate solution was? The other interesting thing is that she seemed to base her decision at least in part on the recommendation of audio reviewers which we’ve all been cautioned about, but is still often a factor in buying decisions."

Agreed. But I think (cautiously) I might propose, for such intents and purposes, to take that reasoning a step further and say that, in the end, system building is for each of us our own act of creation...nothing more and nothing less, really...and that, whether we are fully aware of the fact from the outset or not, indeed None of us may know what the real destination will be when we start. We may Think we know, we may feel we have reason to be highly confident based on our own thinking, efforts and understanding...yet all of That is really nothing more than our best-informed supposition. But, what if, after our best efforts, we are left dissatisfied with something? What do we do then?

We can either stand down our urge to do something about it and say that this is just the nature of the beast, or we can dare to pull at the loose thread in the sweater...and risk unraveling the whole.

Given enough time to reach the decision, I’d say that many people may find themselves contemplating that there’s more work to be done than what they originally may have supposed. Although this prospect may not be for the feint of heart, it does also open the door ultimately to getting what one wants from the system...we just may not reliably know where it all will lead or how much (or even how little) it may finally cost, but, for those who have the heart for it, it is perhaps the only next, logical step. But, for each of us getting to that point, it may seem that a personal threshold must be crossed.

Cheers.
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