Forward or laid back


To quote a recent comment by a member: "The most salient characteristic (to me) is that the acoustic presentation of some of these speakers seemed quite forward (row D), whereas that of others was really quite laid back (row M). There was also, quite often, a second correlation between that forward presentation and a (relative) brightness in the treble. As far as I can tell, these features are often preferred and indeed seem to be aimed for in the voicing of many models during their development. To my ears, speakers in this category were the Treos, O/93s, and Veneres. Somewhere in the middle were the CM10s and the Liutos. A bit more laid back were the Dynaudios and the Vienna Acoustics"

You may be in the minority but then so am i! However, little do these audiophile misanthropes know that they do not or can not hear or appreciate the sound of an orchestra or a vocalist in a natural concert hall setting!

I agree again on another point. I can not STAND most of these so called " reviewers" who have lynched the press with their stupid ass observations about live acoustic sound and what it is to appreciate its truthfulness. Every word they utter is punch, Liveliness, BOOGIE (lmao) , exciting, drive etc, etc. Is that how a frickin orchestra or a female ( operatic) voice should sound??? I read their source material used and I want to throw up!! ( not because of the music per say , but that this is the material they use to evaluate loudspeakers??? ( Maybe they've picked the wrong hobby..?) They can spend their money on these components and fool themselves into believing this hobby they enjoy (high end audio) is fulfilling their supposedly objective needs; which is all well and good. It's not , however, the" real " sound of unamplified music. 
I guess, in the final evaluation, their " employers" no little either, or why would they adhere to or accept the rantings  of kids who are engulfed in this music for evaluating music reproduction in the home??????
So admittedly, not having heard everything of the newest designs around today, I can still proudly look back and thank a few people ( some gone now) who have truly..... contributed to the development of natural sound reproduction: Nelson Pass, Spencer Hughes, Peter Walker, to name a few!
PS. I used to publish a small subscription newsletter review myself in the early 1980's.

128x128hm1

Showing 13 responses by hm1

Indeed, I sit sometimes in the 5th row. When I am hearing the music, naturally it emanates closer and I can hear, feel and see, as you say, the performer. This does not mean that when I sit in my listening chair ( in my room....) about 10-12 feet from my loudspeakers, that I want a loudspeaker to push its presentation to me as if the orchestra is "in my face". 
To say that this is an accurate way to record the event is fine or subjective, I agree. The speaker will take your recording and play it as such. ( reproducing it hopefully as you recorded it , up front. However, a speaker that is balanced properly, will push the listener closer... Only to the degree of its limits and hopefully its PROPER design parameters. ( voicing has more to do with how the designer hears and adjusts his final design towards the speakers brightness, presence and tonality... all of which some people are BETTER at psychoacoustically than others) . Hence , the final experience in your home may be a closer one but will not have the performer literally in your face when your sitting in your say, 22 by 15 foot listening room. 
Point being... Loudspeakers should be balanced or voiced at a neutral distance with no part of the frequency spectrum " standing out" per say. This way, people like you can make a recording and its " in room" balance, while more up front, will not be excruciatingly and ridiculously ( lol) 
singing 3 feet away from your ears.!!!

On top of that, the most accurate and useful frequency response measurements of a final and hopefully well designed transducer should have its "in room" response curve as its final destination .(as opposed to an and anachoic chambers readings).
these are the hallmarks of a great loudspeaker design, with relatively few peaks or abnormalities as possible. That may...put my point in a better perspective.

I Can add a few more names to my previous list. As for reviewer(s) I do trust would be Martin Colloms and the late John Crabbe. Speaker designer Laurie Finchman and Roy Allison. I must get out to hear the MAGICO speakers and see how much their accolades can stand up to my personal dissemination ( and pocketbook).

PS. Any loudspeaker that makes a decent if not exceptional recording of an orchestra sound "exciting, punchy in the bass, more "present" in the midrange or LIVELY in any part of its frequency range is NOT... An accurate transducer. That is an incontrovertible fact!!!
Great answer. I suspect that many people who proclaim to know something actually know very little!
Hard rock, amplified music is not a concert hall. An electric guitar hooked up to an amp and speakers playing on a stage in a " hall" is not or should not be portrayed as 'accurate reproduction' of the absolute sound. A loudspeaker that portrays your recording of that music in that fashion, in your home is not accurate, per say. So if the speaker in your system at home sounds like the amplified electric guitar on stage, you're not listening to an accurate loudspeaker. It may sound the way you like it to sound, but it's not a neutral transducer

Interesting observation. I suppose you could go another route if need be. A direct feed say, of a bbc or American broadcast of a live orchestra, operatic or jazz, pop concert . Now the big caveat:most likely the engineers TODAY.... Will not use a cross pair, blumlien microphone technique. It is not in fashion anymore. You can buy some older EMI recordings from the late 50's or early 60's but the mikes, in either case, are there naturally. 
Martin Colloms, however, many years ago, tested each speaker with blind ( curtain covering speakers in the listening room) live vs. recorded music and instruments in his hi fi choice publications. Some of those reviews were eye openers at the time.

Try if you can one time to get a broadcast of exceptional quality ( any microphone technique I guess) and listen to it through your audio set up with a pair of Spendor BC1's or a Quad 63 properly angled toward your listening seat. You might be astounded by what you hear... They used to call it real " drama". The stereo effect is something no less than thrilling!
I took the quote from a member but the gist of what I got from it was of speakers he auditioned at the high end show and his disagreement as to speaker design visa vie voicing, neutrality and live orchestral sound. He also stated he did not trust any of the current crop of reviewers opinions; something I wholeheartedly agree with.
just came home from my trip and caught a lot. I see all you ever cought in your life is bass and a bevy of red herring.... Tiny  ones at that! 
My main and essential points are as follows. If we assume a loudspeaker is designed to deliver an essentially flat or neutral response with particular emphasis on the in room characteristics of the reproduction, it would be quite obvious  that Acoustic  instruments and vocals were or should have been the test material that was used for final evaluation. Why?...because people are most familiar with the sound of real instruments and voices. Heavily-processed electronic synthesizers have no real-life reference of naturalness, since those sounds don’t exist in nature. Same thing for movie sound effects—no one knows what an Exploding Death Star or the Enterprise’s warp engines are supposed to sound like, because they don’t exist in real life. If that is a criticism to audiophiles who enjoy and use hard rock and electronic music to evaluate loudspeaker performance,  so be it. I do not trust their opinions.
Simple and to the point!
I would hope the designer would measure the response anechoically and within a somewhat average sized, every day room without to many reflections or distortions 
obviously.....lol... You must start with a speaker or sound producing device that can accurately reproduce sound energy and do it so all frequencies are represented and presumably smoothly balanced; hard to understand I guess

If I am stuck in the 80's lol... I'm certainly glad that most respected designers and technicians basically still agree with my contentions on how they proceed to define an accurate loudspeaker; wise up!
Creeds: a loudspeaker can not be judged for its accuracy as to how it reproduces live instruments with recordings of amplified or electronic music .... It's not real! You may be a head banger; and enjoy it. But don't tell me that that music as recorded should be used to source the "accuracy" of live sound or a properly designed loudspeaker . Get a boom box and have fun!