MD, +1 for the price correction. Merrill Audio, with their model Element 118 ($36k per monoblock pair, 400 W into 8 ohms, 800W into 4 ohms), Element 116 ($22k per monoblock pair, 300 W into 8 ohms, 600W into 4 ohms) and Element 114 (coming soon). https://merrillaudio.netI suggested elsewhere that the AGD Productions Vivace might be a bargain at $15k per monoblock pair. Clearly, the Merrill Audio products are quite competitive given the W per $. |
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Jeff Rowland gear is always very expensive. I guess that is part of his design package. |
I hope reports surface from CES 2019 regarding new products having this GaN-FET power transistor tech. |
georgehifi4,762 posts01-14-2019 2:51pm
http://www.ti.com/power-management/gallium-nitride/overview.html
Here we go hopefully, one of the majors have got the rights to make it, watch Class-D take off now, and finally compete with the best of Linear amps in the mids and highs and beat it in the bass as it always did.
Cheers George
☝🏻☝🏻 One of George’s posts from another thread that is relevant here. |
Ralph, is that $15k price tag for the CE mark a flat certification fee, or a fee cost applied to each amp? |
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think Jeff Rowland nor Red Dragon include GaN-FET transistor tech, which is the topic of this thread. Please keep this thread clean and relevant. |
Lol...I just wanted this thread to focus on the manufacturers offering the GaN-FET class D tech, that is all. No need to take offense, folks.
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ricevs, you might be over-reading the review a bit. I interpret the Technics design architecture (from the Technics website) to reflect a configuration comprising a DAC, an analog Preamp and Class D Amp. The digital inputs are fed to the DAC for conversion to analog signals. The preamp section processes and amplifies all analog signals from both the DAC and analog inputs before sending them to the GaN-FET driver stage of the amp section. |
+1, George. This thread is devoted to only GaN-based transistor tech for class D audio amplifiers. Please let this thread grow organically with that purpose in mind. |
I am hoping that some of these manufacturers show up for APOXNA in Chicago this year. Sounds like HEA is done and out at CES.
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Mike Powell wanted me to correct my OP regarding the power output of the AGD Vivace monoblock amps. Unfortunately, I can’t edit the OP once someone responds. While the AGD Vivace can output as much as 200W into a 4 ohm load, I interpret this to mean output power at clipping. The nominal power output is 100W into a 4 ohm load at the rated distortion specs. See the technical specs page from the AGD website: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Suyt7GsGYmSXiv7JARegarding the cost of the Merrill amps in my OP, I incorrectly stated these prices as per monoblock chassis. I corrected this pricing error to reflect the price per monoblock chassis PAIR. |
OCD has 4 AGD Vivace monoblocks driving his Maggies and subs via an external custom 4-way crossover. |
+1, Mike (OCD HiFi Guy) Powell, for his contributions here. Mike always impressed me as a straight shooter, no bs, kinda guy. I’m one of his clients, so call me biased. |
Mirrors have a way of showing bias and abuse toward members.
FWIW, Verastarr products use pure silver foil. Almost everyone understands Reynolds Wrap is an aluminum-based foil product. |
Merrill Audio’s contributions also welcomed. |
+1, Teo_Audio, for correcting his now-deleted post (see 👇🏻). Fluoride in our (US) toothpaste is nasty, too. Feds have no problem feeding the health benefit bs line to us. Lol |
Regarding power output of the in production GaN-based class D amps, I’ve been criticized for posting what is from the manufacturers’ own websites. So this is my last attempt to compare their respective outputs:
ADG Vivace: 200W into 4 ohms with 0.1% THD using a 1kHz signal
Technics SE-R1: 300WPC into 4 ohms with 0.5% THD using a 1kHz signal
Merrill 118: 800W into 4 ohms (no THD or frequency signal data specified).
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+1, George, for clarifying that GaN devices will be required to get class D topologies to the front of the pack. |
@tweak1, Early adopters pay the heavy price. |
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Looks like I have dyslexia. ADG—> AGD. |
George, I saw this website earlier during an internet search. I thought it was interesting though not relevant for HEA applications. Most, if not all, of the applications were in the Microwave or RF amplifier frequency areas. But yes, AD is in the game.
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As more class D audio amp manufacturers enter this market space, competition will drive down prices. The GaN-FET is a minor cost component to the overall design. End of chain designers acquire license to use the GaN-FET when they buy the GaN-FET’s from a GaN-FET manufacturer, to the extent that patents covering the GaN-FET are still in force. Those who buy their GaN-FET devices as part of somebody else’s GaN-FET modules are going to pay the middleman/patent holders of that module tech. So pick your poison: buy from an independent designer who develops his/her own circuits or go buy from an outfit who builds amps with another’s module-assemblies. |
The original post cannot be edited once someone posts a response. I admit certain mistakes exist in that original post that adversely affect all three manufacturers in one way or another. All errors have been addressed in follow-on posts. |
I already posted the various corrections. The fact you missed them shows the new OP is warranted. |
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Let’s try to keep the hyperbole and slams against manufacturers to a minimum. Let the market dictate success without besmirching designers who opt to take a different path than those who endorse module users. |
Hmmm....
“Affordable Amp manufacturers will not "use" the raw GaN fet component, only the more esoteric $$$$$ ones may design their own modules, if they’re suicidal.” |
George, please order a GaN evaluation board amp module out of the Digikey Electronics catalog, assemble the amp and let us know how it sounds. |
Does anyone know what the input impedance of the AGD Vivace monoblock amp is? |
Enjoy the board then. I’ve got higher standards. |
For those tempted to buy the ~$1,400 Digikey EPC evaluation board, keep in mind what you are paying for: copyright royalty fee for the PCB’s (probably $700 of the cost); PCB’s stuffed with mostly non-premium parts worth likely ~$350; and marketing costs. Such a board will not be nearly as good as a set of unstuffed PCB’s one could build up using premium parts. Digikey should simply offer unstuffed PCB’s at manufacturing costs, along with a copyright royalty fee-free, non-commercial license to the end user to build not more than 1 amp circuit with the PCB’s.
Nelson Pass’s Zen designs were offered this way back in the day. |
Hmmm....I have no issues with a topic I brought up with respect to a GaN-based class D audio amp.
I did start a new thread the other day about impedance matching in the preamp-power amp topic.
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All I know about the Merrill Element 116 monoblocks is on their website. They allegedly include the GaN-based MOSFET’s in a class D design. |
Marantz PM-10 is a conventional integrated amp. It does not appear to include a class D amp section, let alone a GaN-based class D amp section. So this post is misplaced. This forum thread is focused on GaN-based class D amps.
The GaN-based technology are power FET transistors made of Gallium Nitride. They are used in power output implementations, not in the power supply section.
The benefit of a GaN-based FET power transistor over silicon-based MOSFET power transistors is how well the GaN-based FET transistors track the input signal on square wave measurements. One needs to see a picture of such a measurement to understand this point. The upshot of all of this is that deadtime is reduced, overall negative feedback in the amplifier circuit is dramatically reduced or altogether eliminated, among other things.
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Well, that was helpful. And I am going be as polite as possible.
For one to say they listen to a bunch of amps in 6 different systems having only cables in common and doing so via A/B comparisons while saying nothing—absolutely nothing about their listening impressions, let alone the identity of the amps or the identity of the cabling or components of the 6 different systems—provides absolutely nothing as a contribution to this forum thread.
And I look forward to meaningful input from the previous poster regarding specific listening impressions of GaN-based FET class D amps. The rich diversity of different systems in which those impressions are contexted should also be provided for the benefit of all.
I ask all contributors to think about what I requested in my original post. The implicit question is the solicitation of listening impressions about GaN-based FET clas D amps. Please respect that request. |
I pm’ed Lyngdorf via FB regarding this tech. The IMD figures strongly suggest a GaN-FET class D tech is in the amp. |
Why not be helpful rather than simply answering the question in the affirmative?
Helpful means listing the GaN-FET class D amps, the components of the six different systems in which your group of buddies have tested them, and the cables. That is a starting basis. If you don’t want to contribute your listening impressions, then that is your prerogative. And nobody is asking you to endorse or demean any manufacturer. (I am not sure where you read that into my OP.) |
Erik, I agree negative feedback is used in a lot of class D designs. But I guess this particular amp is not a class D amp. Not saying it isn't a great AB amp (or whatever it is), just does not seem to fit into this thread's focus.
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+1, Ralph, for educating and keeping us on track!
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Ok, time for me to clean up some ignorant commentary expressed in one of my posts on this page. The Lyngdorf amp is a class D amp, but not one that includes GaN-FET transistors (+1, bulldogger). The amp might be a modified Bruno Putzeys’ design using variants of his Hypex Ncore modules (+1, GeorgeHiFi) with judicious use of NFB across the audio frequency spectrum. Bruno Putzeys is the person I believe Lyngdorf mentioned in his FB post. By searching "Bruno Putzeys," I discovered he is also the designer behind a class D monoblock called Mola Mola Kaluga. At $16k per monoblock pair, it was said to be competitive price-wise and sonically with the best amps out there. Some reviews are here: https://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/972-mola-mola-kaluga-mono-amplifiershttps://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/molamola/1.htmlIt remains to be seen whether Bruno will migrate to GaN-FET tech class D designs, but this amp isn’t one of them. It will be interesting to A/B this class D design against the best sounding GaN-FET class D amps out there (whatever that may be). |
Peter Lyngdorf got back to me via FB messenger today. He confirmed that his new amp he raved about on his FB page has no GaN-FET tech in it.
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+1, Ralph. I suspect the confusion stems from the digital inputs in some of these amps. Folks might forget one needs a DAC circuit to generate the audio signal prior to amplification via an analog stage.
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