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Horn based loudspeakers why the controversy?

As just another way to build a loudspeaker system why such disputes in forums when horns are mentioned?    They can solve many issues that plague standard designs but with all things have there own.  So why such hate?  As a loudspeaker designer I work with and can appreciate all transducer and loudspeaker types and I understand that we all have different needs budgets experiences tastes biases.  But if you dare suggest horns so many have a problem with that suggestion..why?
128x128johnk

Showing 8 responses by larryi

larryi
1,972 posts
 

johnk,

Thank you for the very good list of current horn speaker/driver manufacturers.  I recently got to hear a system built with new G.I.P Laboratories drivers and they should be on your list.  The system I heard had an 18" field coil woofer in an open baffle arrangement, a WE 555 replica midrange compression driver (the horn was a copy of a YL wooden horn) and a replica WE 597 tweeter.  The three field coil drivers were powered by a newly built tungar power supply.  This is a fantastic sounding system.  What was surprising to me is how good the 597 replica tweeter sounded (I did not expect the tweeter to make that much of a difference).  I am looking into this tweeter for my system, and maybe, the 555 compression driver (I currently run WE 713b for the midrange).

larryi
1,972 posts
 

While I appreciate the theoretical discussion, how about some perspective on the sound?  What specific systems or drivers/components have you all heard and either liked or really disliked?

I have been listening to a system with three G.I.P. field-coil drivers: 18" woofer, WE 555 clone midrange compression driver (feeding a YL horn, and a WE 597 clone tweeter.  This is among the nicer sounding horn systems I've heard.  I have heard MANY systems using YL horns and drivers, IPC compression drivers, some RCA drivers and WE drivers that I have also liked a lot.  These were all custom builds.

In my own system, I run a WE 713b compression driver and a 12025 sectoral horn, and a fostex bullet tweeter and twin 12" drivers in an Onken bass reflex cabinet.  I suppose this is a horn hybrid system, but, it is at least reasonably efficient (99 db/w) and I run it easily with a 5 watt pushpull amp.

I have heard a few commercial horn systems that sounded quite nice, such as an EdgarHorn system and Cessaro system.  I also liked, with some reservations, the Avantgarde duo and trio systems I've heard (bass was a bit uneven and not well integrated). 

larryi
1,972 posts
 

Johnk,

You are correct that very few have heard a full horn system that include front loaded woofers.  I agree they are terrific sounding.  But, they are rare because they are impractical, not because they don't deliver the goods as far as sound is concerned.  I am looking at a hybrid system using an open baffle woofer and even that is WAY too big to be really practical.

larryi
1,972 posts
 
The issue of whether horn systems deliver proper "imaging" depends, in part, on what one considers important in that department.  Most horn systems are physically large, and like a lot of other large speakers, they deliver a "big" sound.  The sound seems to fill up a large volume of space and envelop the listener.  I like this quality a lot.  When one listens to tiny speakers, even when they play quite loudly, one can sense that the sound is coming from a small source and it does not seem to have realistic scale. 
larryi
1,972 posts
 
I have NOT attended a chamber music concert that sounded small in scale or lacked startling dynamics.  But, I suppose that might be the case if one were sitting well back in a large hall (not they usual way I hear chamber works).
larryi
1,972 posts
 
d2girls,

I like a lot of things about Avantgarde systems.  They are, like most good horn systems, very dynamic and sound quite good at lower volume levels.  They also don't have as much problems with nasal coloration or other types of tonal coloration associated with some horn systems. 

But, they have varying degrees of problems with integration between the horn and the bass modules; the two parts sound different.  Also, with some of their systems, the bass has a bit of a "one-note" quality.  Still, on balance, I like the systems I've heard.


larryi
1,972 posts
 
I've heard dozens of horn systems.  Of the complete systems, I like: the Edgarhorn systems I've heard; some of the Volti systems I've heard were okay, but not that great for my taste; Klipschorn and Lascala not my favorites; Altec Voice of the Theater not my favorites; Goto-good, but big and expensive); and a few more that I can't remember who built them. 

Back-loaded horn systems include: Beauhorn, Rethm, Charney, and a few others.

Mostly, I've heard custom systems built around Western Electric, International Projector Company, Yoshimura Laboratories, and Jensen --drivers and horns.  I've heard systems that use new drivers from G.I.P (Japan) that are replicas of old Western Electric drivers that sound terrific (they ought to, given the prices of these drivers).

My own system is built around a horn-based system from Strumenti Acustici de Precisione (twin 12" Alnico magnet woofers in an Onken cabinet, compression driver and horn midrange (I swapped out what came with the system and replaced the midrange with a Western Electric 713b driver and a 12025 sectoral horn), and a bullet tweeter.  
larryi
1,972 posts
 
Gawdbless,

Strumenti Acustici de Precisione no longer exists, but the owner/designer, Vincenzo Fratello,  has a new company called DolceVita Audio.  It is even harder to find references to that company.  A dealer in my Northern Virginia area, Deja Vu Audio, heard the new lineup of speakers in Italy and plans to bring it into his shop when production commences.  I don't think there are any horn designs in the new lineup, but, the speakers are probably worth hearing; this particular dealer makes custom horn speakers from vintage and new parts and is very much in tune to the sound of horn-based systems.  

The Oris horn, using full-range drivers as mid to upper frequency drivers is a very promising approach.  Used that way, many such drivers sound much smoother and natural than as truly full range drivers.  I have heard Lowther, AER and Feastrix and cheap Tang Band drivers used this way and the systems sounded quite good. 

The only time I heard a full-range driver sound great without any other drivers is the Charney Audio back-loaded horn--a quite amazing system give that it sounds good, looks presentable, does not take up much room and is very reasonably priced.   I've heard the Charney with a Voxativ driver and an AER driver (I like the AER more because it sounded smoothly extended in its top range).  The Voxativ full range systems (of course using their drivers) sound good too, but I'll still take the Charneys.
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